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Tuesday, February 26, 2008

Comments

Jesse

i love miss shirley q. and her comedy... as a gay minority, i don't find this offensive. as a society, we have larger issues to tackle and harping on one comic is unfruitful

Joe

Ms Liquor is just funny, and Charles Kipp is a genius. He is an artist and it is the job of art to comment on society. So get over it. If you need more reasons to get your panties out of an twist. Think on this. Number one, Charles Kipp’s partner is a black man. Number two, Charles Kipp has many characters each of which poke fun at all kinds of stereo types. Just check out Betty Butterfield.
And by the way, gay men are very comfortable laughing at their stereo types because we knocked the chip off our shoulder years ago. I suggest you do the same. Then maybe you can see the humor in Ms Liquor.

Hans

Shirley's parodies ARE indeed somewhat sad and degrading, however, they are SPOT ON, and hence funny to many. So it's perhaps an uncomfortable realization for people to realize and comprehend that THIS is in fact how many of their own community behave,talk and think
Now certainly, there are atrociously uneducated and appallingly boorish,ignorant and stupid white people as I'm sure there are of ANY race. So MY take on this is that if you don't LIKE a certain sort of type of person or behavior, then do everything and anything not to BE that sort of person and to discourage and work hard to rectify behaviors and mentality that might support that type of characterization. I no more appreciate George Bush or Dick Cheney or any OTHER RICH, stuffed shirt cold hearted intolerant white guy than I'm sure many black people appreciate Shirley Q. Liquor - and it hurts and embarrasses ME to be a part of THAT race.

Laura Fielder

Let me say I am mixed about the whole Shirley Q. Liquor thing. I feel we are giving him too much publicity. I only heard of him through the protesting bloggers. As you know "No publicity is bad publicity". I am late to this discussion, but that is the point. His name is still around.

He will not get too far because his act is too minstrel and crude. No white American will publicly accept this "Birth of the Nation" style coonery black face in this day and age. They would be labelled as outright racist. That is why we have our VH1's "Flavor flav" and "I love New york" tv shows
.
Having said that. Yes I know the "Shirley Q Liquors" of the world and there is nothing funny about their lives. Nothing to make fun about. Their lives are quite depressing. His work is racist because his portrayal of these woman is debased and dehumanizing. And as we know historically in when members of the dominant society (in this case white males) portray a less powerful group of people (black women) in a prejudiced and negative way, society is given permission to see the less powerful group as second class citizen and treat them accordingly.

This is the danger of Shirley Q Liquors type performances and its more refined and modern forms black face/coonery of today. Black women are portrayed are viewed as less than human. These women are dismissed by their community and society. Charles Kipp, the performer is not dangerous per se but the ideal he represents -- black woman as a target of racist and misogynist entertainment sends chills me right through my bones

Jon

And just a response to reese, as a white man I have to admit that the problem is not that whites are racist. Most of us are hyper-conscious of racism. I've had this discussion with many of my black friends and it's always the same conclusion, white people just aren't told that being white makes us different anymore. It used to be that people were raised thinking "you're white, they're colored" but in an attempt to erase racism, white people are told "everyone's the same, including you." So, a lot of times we forget that there are still differences. This leads some to accidentally say and do things that are offensive. It is an unspoken taboo in contemporary white culture if I were to say, for the sake of argument, that being white is a defining attribute about me. In the South (and I'm from Mississippi so I know what I'm talking about) it was common to think of "white" as a defining attribute up to as early as thirty years ago. If not later. That's not true with others cultures. African-Americans are still raised with an understanding that they are black. This is why you'll hear white people complain that this type of thinking keeps racial barriers up. To a degree it does, but the argument on the reverse is true. Pretending that barriers still don't exist keeps progress at a standstill. So blacks are still justified in thinking of the descriptive "African-American" as a defining feature. This isn't by any means an excuse, just an explination that, at least in my case and the case of all of my friends, fits with my cultural upbringing. We just forget we're white sometimes, and that is actually a privlege.

Jon

Thank you so much for this article! I have only heard Shirley Q. audio clips and thought it was hilarious but was always uneasy at the thought that it was slightly degrading, but considering that I had no idea it was actually a white man in drag, I thought that it was okay. I haven't heard any Shirley Q. for a while, but now that I know it's really a modern day black-faced, minstral show it's very embarassing to even admit that I've listened to it. I'm glad I stumbled on this article.

La

Some of us don't realize this is a form of racism. I hate to bring attention to it also, but it has to be done. This is my take on the issue.

http://tributetoblackwomen.com/thoughts/?p=15

reese

this is a damn shame. it just like every other goldmine in america...built on the suffering of blacks. with that said, we must realize what we are dealing with when we deal with racist whites. white supremacy has them feeling as though they have entitlement when it comes to dealing with other cultures. they have been able to poke fun at and capitalize off of the oppression of people of color for centuries with out ever having to face or experience the pain that creates the diversity within our cultures. and the sad truth is, knipp and white folks like him envy our diversity and beauty to their core. but he has not been forced to face the sometimes ugly, true reality of the experience of the black woman in america--racism coupled with sexism. the agony of these institutions feeds our beauty, resourcefulness, tenacity, brilliance and culture overall. but since he is completely ignorant to this truth, he should sit his i-wish-i-was-black ass down; and try to learn something from our rejection of him.

Villager

Sis. Jasmyne --> we got your back! I will share this information with my blog readers today.

peace, Villager

peachmari

some of these comments in this thread are just another example of folks laying the image and honour of black women out to die.

-clean up the black community first?

how about multi-tasking. we can help our community AND ensure that various medias have accurate and varied images of us

-what about the waynes brothers, eddie murphy, madea, etc?

i believe all these creations to be of low standard (with some lower to the bottom than others) but none of them are as repulsive as knipps. it's the combination of the content, delivery and desired audience that make this all the more shameful.

there is no need to let this slip by. Next time this foolishness comes near me i’ll be sure to be there and let him know there is still some one who holds the image of black women up high

Mary

Jasmyne,

It is so scary that some black women aren't even offended by this. I agree with trying to stop Charles 'I want to be a black woman' Knipp. He shouldn't be making money off of us and nope this is not the same as when the Marlons brothers acted in White Chicks. Folks you can argue all you want that it is, but it really isn't the same.

Opps! The post sent on "Thursday, February 28, 2008 at 02:59 PM" was mine OaklandRoyalty...I just forgot to put in my name, "I aint shame"...lol

Ok, confession time people…
Jasmyne –
When you first brought this “Shirley Q. Liquor” thing to our attention; I was extremely offended and floored by the fact that this was a GAY white man doing this. I mean of all people a gay man. [From my life experiences the gay men I’ve known have had to deal with far more discrimination than I have as a (DAMN) proud BLACK lesbian]

But after reviewing some of the comments and really thinking about it…I now see what Charles “Shirley Q. Liquor” Knipp is saying. I don’t think he has/had any ill intentions with this character. I think most of us [black women] if we’re being honest, know or have a Shirley Q. Liquor in our family or circle of friends. Ok, yes Mr. Knipp lays it on thick but that is part of the humor of this character.

Shawn and Marlon Wayans did the EXACT same thing with the film WHITE GIRLS. When the film came out; I was stocked that NO one [to my knowledge] complained that they were offended. Matter of fact the white women I know thought it was funnier than the black people I know.

Shawn and Marlon portrayed white women as clueless, needy, airheads with no other purpose in life than spending daddy’s money and dieting to fit into a size 00. So how can I be offended by Knipp?

At the same time I know SCORES of Black WOMEN that are just like this character and some [dare I say] WORSE.

I believe Mr. Knipp when he said this character was“homage” to the black woman who helped raise him. And I imagine a 10-year old fat, flaming, white boy coming home crying b/c the other kids are calling him a faggot and that sweet black mother figure consoling him by letting him know, “it don’t matter what people think only what God thinks”. And that is something I’m ok with standing by, until I hear or see different.

When is it ok to make fun of black people? Everyone else gets made fun of. What about Dave Chapelle, Eddie Murphy, Richard Pryor, Paul Moonie, etc. They’ve all told some pretty vicious white jokes and everyone laughed.

Maybe WE need to lighten up!!...No pun intended.

Scott

I don't find Knipp's act to be racist. I can see why some would get that impression at first, but once you really see what it's about, it's not intended to be hurtful.

For instance, look at RuPaul - a BLACK, GAY man who thought his act was so funny that he asked Knipp to appear on his latest album as the Shirley Q. Liquor character. Sometimes poking fun isn't meant to be mean, but to just make people laugh. I've yet to hear of anybody attend a Shirley Q. Liquor gig, and then suddenly have the urge to attack black people.

SheCodes

After listening to some of the material, as a black woman, I am EXTREMELY offended. We are unable to change the past, but we are DEFINITELY able to change the future.

As black women, we can fight the two-edged sword of black racio-misogyny AND white racio-misogyny... at the same time. We are complex, intelligent creatures who can think our way out of this mess.

Until we, as women of color, open our eyes and see the damage that is being done to the psyche of both our daughters and sons with spiteful imagery like this, we will continue to live and flounder at the bottom of the social and financial order in America.

the envy of the world

Miss Jasmyne,
Watching this mockery of my mother, sister, daugter's identity is upsetting to say the least.

Norma

I also agree that day after day of internet press is going to give this guy publicity. We have all seen what can happen when something like this gets stirred up. Before you know it, there will be a movie filmed or a book written, and guess who will get the money from it? And even at that the shows may continue. Again, I am not disregarding what you are saying. I see your point and to a degree share it. I just don't want us to think we are making progress to stop something and only feed it.

I agree that Jasmyne, you need to stop giving this person so much publicity. Of course you/we need to protest this downright blatant racism, sexism, and just plain foolishness. This guy's "act" is different from the role that Tyler Perry plays or even the "White Chicks" characters portrayed by Shawn and Marlon Wayans. You have to see the intent behind the characters. This man Knipp is downright racist.

hehehehe

Sooooo, it's funny if Tyler Perry does it...but it's not if Charles Knipp does it...

focusedpurpose

Jasmyne-

be encouraged. you have support. you are right. this is unacceptable and wrong.


-focusedpurpose

Respect Yourself

I am so tired of black people saying that we need to turn a blind eye to ignorance. We should only focus on our issues. Well this is one of OUR issues, so focus on it. If we consistently allow others to degrade us including our own than we have no right to ask for respect.

Janet

I find it astonishing that any African American person would not be appalled of this vulgar depiction of African Americans. It’s amazing to me that when welfare is discussed, the face is always that of a Black woman. We know what Black America’s problem is/was, slavery, but can someone tell me why there is still an illiterate white population living on welfare? Ms. Liquor can focus her act on her own people and let us deal with the plight of African Americans. Why is HRC and other organizations not addressing this blatant racist discourse. Jasmyne although we have different opinions on who is the best person for president, one thing we are in agreement with and that is fighting injustice.

blackgirl

why do you continue to talk abot this guy on your site? slow news day?

get over it. people will continue to be racist, sexist, and a number of other things. you are giving him free publicity.

just stop it.

emylpmis

John: Do something about Shawn and Marlon's portrayl of white women. Create your own blog and fight.
This minstrel show, that some call entertainment is completely and inherently racist.

John

Did you have the same outrage when Shawn and Marlon Wayans did the movie White Chicks? I would guess not since you are still posting clips on the movie on your sight. But since it was black writers, director and actors it makes it all ok.

Another of the examples of your astonding self importance and hypocrisy.

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