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Friday, December 07, 2007

Comments

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You are the most gorgeous black lesbian I've ever seen in my life!

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Oh Jasmyn, I'm so lesbian I got every single one of your points!

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yes yes I agree haha very true and I found this very true... I'm just moking you if you wonder...

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I think that you are all WACK!! CONFUSED is the only definition that all of you should use to describe yourselves! You all kill me with your MESS!! Lesbians say they are attracted to women, BUT THEIR WOMEN LOOK AND TRY TO BE LIKE MEN LOL! so what's the difference? Why don't you REALLY admit what motivates you since we are all being so REAL, some of you are just sexual deviants who get a charge from going against the established definition of what the "norm" is and others are just straight freaks. Still others have been hurt so badly emotionally by men that they compensate by going to the other end of the spectrum. And still more are too ugly (keepin' it real folks!) to attract the kind of man they want physically and thus, get no attention, so they become the "men" for the lipstick lesbians. Now I hear the racket already from those that will call me an idiot but alone in your room with nobody else when it's just you and your thoughts--you know its the TRUTH. LOL!

Toni

I'm just wondering how it is that such beautiful and expressive emotions such as Love and Attraction can be sullied by those who seek it and relish it?

Truthiz

Amy, perhaps you’re quite young_say, early 20s? And perhaps you don’t Understand the meaning of “Biphobia”_?

Because I would really hate to think that you’re age 30 or above and still DON’T get it?!

As much as you might want it to be_THIS is not_let me repeat_NOT about lesbians "fearing" bisexuals_or anybody else for that matter!

In fact, regarding this thread_Jasmyne’s list doesn’t mention anything about “bisexuals” at all!

She could have just as easily stated:

You’re a lesbian IF__

1. You’re attracted to women ONLY.

2. You DON”T have a man

3. You DON’T want a man_(NOR have you wanted a man in quite some time)

4. You’re NOT sleeping with a man_(NOR have you slept with a man in quite some Years, if ever)

5. You’re NOT waiting on a man

6. You’re NOT a man


But I guess Jasmyne figured REAL “lesbians already KNOW this!

Amy

>Amy, please take ur bisexual self >somewhere ELSE. Kudos J for pointing out >who is a lesbian. Amy is obviously not!

Bisexuals aren't allowed to comment here? I never saw Jasmyne write anything about that. As far as I can tell, I _am_ allowed to comment.

And you're right: I am "obviously not" a lesbian -- I'm bisexual. As I said in my comment. So what? It doesn't mean I can't share my opinion. In fact, since a lot of the comments to Jasmyne's post seem to be mentioning bisexuals, I think it's only fair that some bisexuals respond.

There seems to be a lot of biphobia in these comments, and I think that's a shame. If you want to sit around saying who is and is not allowed to call herself a lesbian, that's your perogative (although, again, I don't agree -- a lesbian is anyone who says she is, in my opinion). But don't drag us bisexuals into it. Lesbians calling themselves lesbians and having sex with men, is not the same as bisexual, and there's no need for bi-bashing. Don't like bisexuals? Join the American Family Association -- because it's just as bad as what they're doing with all their homophobia! You're playing right into their hands. Sad.

Finally, if you can't take a woman at her word for who she says she is, I think that's also sad. You're surprised that some lesbians are confused or live complicated lives? Be a friend. Be supportive. Show some love to your lesbian sisters who are working out their issues and dramas with men. I think it's ironic that I'm the one being supportive and accepting of these self-defined lesbians -- and I'm bisexual -- and you all are lesbians, and are being judgemental.

Also, keep in mind that what a woman is doing at one moment in time is not what she'll be doing for a lifetime. Some people need time to work things out, to come out, etc. I'm sure it was no picnic for any of you to come out. Why be harsh? There's no compassion here... and I thought lesbians were better than all that!

Truthiz

LOL!...Jasmyne I don't know how I missed seeing this post until now?!

But let me just say Thank You! Thank You! Thank you!

Umm_Amy_ Jas doesn't argue how a person "defines" herself OR himself.

She simply states who a "REAL" lesbian is by spelling out Very clearly who is NOT a lesbian.

As Bo said, it's about one's "behavior," one's Actions, which as we all know "speaks LOUDER than words! And if we must go there?_it's about one's GENDER too!

Recap: You're NOT a lesbian if...

1. You still got a man.

2. You still want a man.

3. You still sleeping with a man.

4. You waiting on a man.

5. You are a man.


I'm alright widdit!

Bo

That sounds about right to me.

>Amy said:
>I disagree. A lesbian is any woman who says she is.

hmm sure, if a person identifies themselves a certain way you can't contradict them, but their behavior may prove otherwise.

Such as: you can have great fulfilling sex with anyone, but can you really achieve the same depth of romantic relationship regardless of whether your partner is straight, bi, or gay? That's where the labels come in in my opinion.

CLaudette

Do you watch the L Word? There was the lesbian identified man that only slept with lesbians because he felt he was a lesbian internally.

And did you hear about Queen Latifah proposing to her longtime girlfriend? Well, I'm sure that's a rumor.

Amy, please take ur bisexual self somewhere ELSE. Kudos J for pointing out who is a lesbian. Amy is obviously not!

priestess

Not true that a woman’s a lesbian “just because she says so”. I agree that ALL women have the right to define for themselves who they are, but that doesn’t mean that are not confused in some way or are just straight up lying. If we follow that theory, then we would have never discovered all of the women who “passed” for white, we would have never discussed it, the word “passed” and its meaning would not be in existence. Fact is, these women (and men) “defined themselves” as “white”, but we all know the deal. So the sista who “says” she’s a lesbian, could have many reasons for saying so. Doesn’t make it true. Doesn’t mean she doesn’t deserve to be respected for defining for herself who it is she feels she is - that’s not the issue. The issue is whether or not it’s true. And it’s only an issue if she steps to a lesbian. Let’s stay there for a minute. You said: “Any feminist should respect the right of a woman to define herself; as a feminist, if a woman tells me she's a lesbian, I believe her.” Goodie for you. Let’s break that down a little further. Here is a list of “self-defining” moments I personally have had the pleasure of experiencing with a woman or know someone who has. She would “define herself” as:

single – she had a man or a woman or both
lesbian – she was bisexual
straight – she was gay
bisexual – she was very confused
bi-curious – she was right
responsible – she was a drug dealer living with her momma
honest – she was a chronic liar
irish, native-american, jewish and asian – she was black
one-woman woman – she was a womanizer
mentally stable – she needed medication
together – she needed rehab
in love with her wife – yet she was trying to get in my panties

So. Just cuz she “says so” doesn’t make it true. This list could go on, Sis. It’s great that you and your lesbian have a closeness and understanding. But your theory just doesn’t hold any water . . . You also said, “The fact is, studies show that most lesbians have had sex with men at some point in their lives.” And? So have the thousands of lesbians across Africa, the Caribbean and the middle east who could be killed for being the lesbian they know themselves to be, so yes, they’ve had sex with men and have children too. Then you have the down-low women here in African American culture. That's a whole different topic. You seem to think that the definition of the term lesbian means you’ve never been with a man. Not necessarily true (however, I can think of about 10 women I know who have never been with a man so it’s not as rare as you think. It’s also possible that you’re running into women who “call themselves” lesbian but are not. Hence, the need for this discussion). Have you ever noticed that lesbian women and bisexual women have two different understandings of what it is to be either. And that’s understandable because they are two different things.

So let’s all give a hand to all the women of the world who are self-defining!! Yaaaay!! But let’s also give a hand to all the lesbians who know the damn difference between a lesbian and a bisexual woman and not letting bisexual women confuse the issue with us too. Yaaay!

Jasmyne, you have me cracking up in my office. You tell it girl! Tell it like it is. I don't know what's up with these "lesbians with boyfriends." I've dated a few myself only to get left for the boyfriend even though they say they're a lesbian. Well, if you're a lesbian in a heterosexual relationship you reap the benefits and privileges of heterosexuality while still trying to claim being a lesbian. How can you identify as lesbian, but not endure the same struggles as those who are not in heterosexual relationships and in fact benefit from being able to hold your boyfriend's hand, take him to your parents and all of that, yet carry non of the burden that comes with a lesbian that you're claiming to be? That seems like trying to have your cake and eat it to.

That's all I got to say.

Amy

I disagree. A lesbian is any woman who says she is. Any feminist should respect the right of a woman to define herself; as a feminist, if a woman tells me she's a lesbian, I believe her. I have no right to say she is not. The only person who has that right is _her_.

I don't care what she does, or who she chooses to be with. That's her business. Lesbians are strong, powerful women, and they have the right to self-definition and sexual autonomy.

The fact is, studies show that most lesbians have had sex with men at some point in their lives. It's actually pretty rare to find a "gold star" lesbian, one who has never been with a man. Some studies (done by lesbian researchers) show that 85% - 90% of lesbians have been with men. And this isn't all before coming out. Most lesbians have had sex with men even after coming out. So what? Again, that's their business, and it's no one's right to judge.

In fact, judging a lesbian for what she does, and trying to define who can and can't call herself a lesbian, is probably just what the homophobes in this country want us to do. After all, it's what they try to do to lesbians every day!

I'm speaking as a proud bisexual woman who loves lesbians, and who is in a committed life-partnership with a lesbian (a "gold star" -- one of the few I've ever met). I wouldn't love her any less, look at her any differently, or tell her she had to call herself any other name, if she had ever been with a man. She's with me, and I'm with her, and that's all that counts.

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