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Monday, December 03, 2007

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She's a courageous woman. I admire her for this kind of personality.

Steven Davies

In response to Friday's post "Perpetrating Lesbians," N.D. Smith submitted the following food for thought from the perspective of being a Black bisexual woman...
It is five times easier to get bacterial vaginosis when you are lesbian.
But luckily for them there are a lot of cures for that disease.

Case

N.D., thank you for your honest and self-revelatory commentary. I honor and respect your life experiences. They are certainly no less valid than my own as a lesbian stud.

If I may, a few comments....

I think that the posting of your commentary, side-by-side, with Jasmyne’s piece on "Perpetrating Lesbians" inadvertently, perhaps, lends credibility to the argument that Jasmyne was calling ALL bisexual women, “perpetrating lesbians”. This was NOT my understanding of Jasmyne’s post.

I read Jasmyne’s piece as calling-out women who exploit butches/studs UNTIL a “real man” comes along. That is not, at all, how I read your personal commentary. I mention this because I think it is important to note because so many folks seem to be wrongly conflating Jasmyne’s comments with anti-bisexuality.

That notion may be further perpetuated by some of the comments made in your piece. For instance: “But most lesbians won't give me a chance. I guess they fear I'll leave them for a man...why aren't they afraid I will leave them for another woman? Come on now...”

While it is true that some lesbians voice mistrust as their reason for not dating bisexual women, this is NOT every lesbians reason for not dating bisexual women. It’s certainly not mine.

Speaking just for myself, I don’t date bisexual women because we’re different gendered bipeds…. I’m a lesbian – you’re a bisexual. And that changes so much more than just the mechanics of our sexual desire. If we are to take gender theory at all seriously, we must acknowledge this.

Thinking about sex with a man takes me to my YUCK zone, so does thinking about my lover with a man. I can’t help that, I really can’t – it’s hardwired in me.... How would it be between us for you to know that I felt that way about that part of you that could, potentially, be with a man? It would get in my way, even if it didn’t get in yours. That not about jealousy or insecurity - it's about a fundamental difference in our gender and sexual expression.

Of course some of my lovers have been with men – me, too – but one of the important things my lovers and I share is the knowledge that, that often unpleasant experience, is behind us. Something we gratefully worked through (escaped might be a more accurate term) and came out whole on the other side of. You only feel whole in your desire for both men and women – whether you act upon it or not.

This is not to say that I couldn’t have sex with you – I could. It’s to say that there would be an essential ingredient missing in our intimacy. Call it what you will – a commonality of gender experience, but it would be missing, at least, for me.

Because I never say, never……. We might be able to have a good relationship despite that. But, I compare it to having an interracial relationship. It’s possible for me to have a relationship with a White woman, but dang, we both better have our deals together because there are internal and external forces working against us that make that way complicated. Consequently, I think long and hard before getting involved with a White woman. My hearts been broken, you see, and I’m hesitant about going down that road again. That doesn’t make anyone a villain. It’s to say that it’s difficult to have an interracial relationship in a raced society. Likewise, it’s difficult to have an inter-gendered relationship in a homophobic society. That doesn’t make anyone a villain, either.

Finally, you said: “We in the GLB&T community have to stick together. It hurts my heart when lesbians treat me like a second class gay citizen.”

I agree.... I don’t see you as a second class citizen. The only thing I ask is that you don’t see me as casting you as one because you may not be the object of my desire.

GreenEyedLilo

Thank you, N.D., for doing your best to explain. To me it makes perfect sense, especially since I also have a background in fundamentalist Christianity. I hope it makes sense to the people who *need* to read it, too.

Jasmyne, thank you for putting this up.

chris

Hi,

My name is Chris and I am black lesbian. I liked your comments, they seemed honest, sincere and you made valid points. It's sad when the GLBT community gives bi sexual women a hard time or treats them like second class citizens. You made a valid point, how could a woman think about the possibility of you leaving her for another man? Why not another woman? Reading you say that illustrates how one-sided the idea is.

I used to be pig headed and think bisexual women should pick a team a play so to speak. But sexuality isn't that simple. I've met a number of women who identify as bisexual and its changed my perception. Honesty is what's most important in any relationship. You never know who you might fall in love with or who the "one" represents. I am not a man hating lesbian, I just have no interest or desire for them. In the end its about the woman who equally matches what you are looking for and whether or not you all can equally move cohesively as a team.

Truthiz

Hmmm...I was hoping to avoid posting back-to-back. But_oh well...

@Amy:

I have to respectfully_but Strongly_ disagree with you Sis!

In fact, I really don’t see where your reference to “biphobia” applies to this discussion at all?! This is NOT about lesbians “fearing” bisexual women.

It’s about “Perpetrating Lesbians”_women who present themselves as “lesbians” when in fact they are actually Scheming-azz bisexual or bi-curious females.

More specifically, it’s about the blatantly DISHONEST nature of “Perps” and how the Black lesbian community finds itself infested with them!

Maybe the community has always been infested with them and I’ve just become more aware of the problem in recent years????

But as has already been acknowledged on this thread_NOT “all” bisexual _or even bi-curious” women are “dishonest” about themselves. They are NOT the problem!

I won’t knowingly date a “bisexual” woman because life as a REAL lesbian can oftentimes be Complicated enough in dealing with another REAL lesbian ina relationship! I neither want, nor need, any "OTHER" potential complications.

That doesn’t mean I can’t be friends with bisexuals. Truthiz, I’ve been close friends with one of the "honest" ones for about 8 years now.

And regarding your notion that _“If you truly love women, you love all women, even those who choose to be with women only for sex or temporary companionship.”

I’ll simply say_I don’t think so!

Peace

Truthiz

@Mary:

Thanks for stepping up and sharing your story!

Sis, in my opinion you're NOT a "perp".

I'll try to keep this short because quite frankly Several facts you shared disqualify you right off the bat.

For starters, when you and your mate got together both of you identified as being "bi-sexual". Doesn't sound like any perpetrating was going on there!

You two have been together for a number of years. Your mate now considers herself to be lesbian while you remain a bisexual. And you've been Honest with her about the ongoing struggles you've been going through. No perpetrating there!

It sounds like you truly "love" your mate and that you're not in it just to "Use" her and have your needs met with little-to-NO thought as to how it will affect her later. No perpetrating there!

I wish both of you Much peace with whatever you decide to do regarding your relationship in the future.

And thanks again!

@Toni:

"REAL" lesbians don't lay up with men period.

ANY woman who does_is either heterosexual OR Bisexual!

I understand if a lesbain had her children YEARS AGO_meaning her Youngest child is at least 8-10 years old.

But straight up_just the thought of a hardcore "Butch" assuming "the position" for a man is BEYOND scandalous to me!!!

Not only is she NOT a REAL "Butch"_h*ll her twisted azz ain't even a REAL lesbian!

Pitiful.

Amy

I think biphobia is sexist, and any lesbian who is biphobic can't really call herself a feminist or even a lover of women. If you truly love women, you love all women, even those who chooe to be with women only for sex or temporary companionship. There are many types of bisexual women, and any woman who identifies as bisexual deserves as much respect as any woman who identifies as lesbian. There's nothing wrong with enjoying sex with women; that doesn't make someone a bad or dishonest person. It makes her a woman who knows what she wants and goes for it. More power to her. Anyone is capable of dishonesty -- it's not necessarily a bisexual thing. I've met super-honest bisexuals and lying, untrustworthy lesbians; there's not correlation between sexual orientation and personality characteristics.
I say: if a woman knows what she wants sexually or romantically or both, good for her! Too many women, sadly, have no clue...

Toni

I think quite a few folks are "perpetrating" regarding their sexual selves and sexual backgrounds. Most "Gay/Lesbian" woymn I've met over the years have had Multiple relationships with men, have children as a result of these relationships, and some still despite pretending otherwise, date men for financial reasons. Nothing cracks me up more than a "stud" who has multiple kids bytching about Bisexual/straight women leading them on. What?! Just what the heck were you when your "butch/stud" azz had your legs up in the air for some man? I myself dated, fell in love with and enjoyed the company of a few men...I just did Not enjoy the sex or feel any sexual connection with any of them no matter how hard I tried. I feel that sexually connecting with a partner, as well connecting mentally/spiritually, to be a crucial part of being with that person. I imagine all of us who have had Any type of sexual experiences as well as an emotional relationship with a man can be categorized as Bisexual. I have no problem with that. Even though I do not connect on a sexual level with men, I can enjoy certain men on an emotional/spiritual/mental level...just as I can and do with certain woymn. Isn't this how human beings connect anyway...don't we connect on a mental/sprititual/emotional level in addition to a sexual level? Folks should be honest with each other as far as their intentions are concerned: if you're Bisexual and do Not connect with Gay/Lesbian woymn on deep emotional level but just enjoy the sex...inform a potential partner of such. If you're a Gay/Lesbian woymn and you enjoy the sexual excitement of being with a Bisexual or straight woman..inform a potential partner of such. Hell, we're adults and it's time to be honest about our sexual needs!

Mary

Ok here I am. You got me, I may be that perp you were waiting for. I'll tell my story and you can decided for yourself. I have been in a relationship with a woman for close to 6 years. I would classify myself as bisexual because I am attracted to men physically. My girlfriend too classified herself as bisexual but now she feels she is a lesbian. She hasn't been with a man for 13 years. I haven't been with a man in an actual relationship for about 8 years. We love each other, now here is where the road gets bumpy. I was raised in the church, my girlfriend wasn't, however she is a very spiritual person. I've been living with the "christian guilt" basically ever since I started truly getting serious with my girlfriend, so basically for 5 years. I still think I have to repent for living in the way I am and start living straight. My girlfriend is comfortable with God and believes that God loves her just as she is. I am trying to get on that level but its real hard when you have your moms and grandmoms on your case about your sexuality and saying its wrong. When I met my gf at age 20 (she is was 27) I wasn't even planning on getting into a full relationship with a woman, I just wanted to "have fun" --- I mean I was only 20 and I hadn't even experienced a lez club yet!! My whole plan was to have fun and then marry a dude later on in life. Moving on, I turned 21 and started hittin' up the lez club and I was in heaven, being surrounded by so many beautiful older women (my preference) was so fun!! So what else you may ask? Well, it's later on in life I'm now 26 and now I am thinking about starting a family and I feel I have got to choose what I want to do--if I actually should marry my gf or go find a dude and marry him to try to live the way "I should" and get my family off my back. This whole time I have been honest with my gf about my religion and how I feel about my sexuality. She's been supportive about it. She tells me she understands if I need to break up with her in order to honor my religion. I tell her that she needs to find someone who has the same beliefs as she and that she doesn't deserve this drama I give her with my religion. But its sort of too late. She still wants me and I feel bad. I love her and I'm really contemplating on letting this christian guilt go but I'm afraid at the same time. I am too into this relationship now, I don't think I would even be happy with a dude. I love my girl and my heart would break if I couldn't be with her. I really no longer have an urge to be with a man, I just want to breathe easy about my religion and my sexuality. So ok, to sum things up yes at first I had no intentions of being with a woman this long. Now it's too deep for me, I want to be with my gf, I've just got to get over the whole mentality that being gay is wrong and that I'll go to hell. If I did marry a dude, it wouldn't be fair to him either because I would truly desire a woman, my gf. I just need to get over the guilt~

Maddison

That was a well written account of N.D.'s struggle. Now it's time for you "perpetrating lesbians" to step up and speak out, give us real lesbians some understanding of why you choose us to be your play toys. We all want to know.

Maddison

That was a well written account of N.D.'s struggle. Now it's time for you "perpetrating lesbians" to step up and speak out, give us real lesbians some understanding of why you choose us to be your play toys. We all want to know.

teres

Yes i would agree with the comment above. She is a true bisexual, not like the posers or users that were previously discussed by Jasmyne in her blog. I would like to hear from women who occasionally sleep with other women simply to pass time, or simply to use them because their personal lives arent going right for the moment. I don't think the gay and lesbian community has a problem with all the N.D. Smiths in the world. If all bisexuals were true and honest like her there wouldnt be a problem. However we are not talking about people like her! Its the so called bisexuals who sleep with or start a relationship with other women becasue they think it's trendy, or the men in their lives arent acting right, or like I said simply to pass time. And when women to this, it can really cause damage to the other party, and it makes real bisexuals look bad. Jasmyne, out of all those posers you said you knew, I know you can get a least one and interview them. INterview a POSER or a USER not a real bisexual!!

Truthiz

First: I’d like to say Thank You to N.D. Smith for sharing such an Honest account of her life!

Second: In my opinion, [K]hristians have done their damndest to hi-jack and distort Christianity as made evident by [K]hristian hypocrites in the Pulpits of many churches, supported by predominantly [K]hristian congregations having too many Hypocrites to number, living their Foul lives any way they please!

But I digress.

Simply put, I too_"no longer believe I’m “going to hell”_for being me. As she stated_“I know God made me and loves me just the way I am.”

Regarding the Fact that many lesbians do NOT trust bisexual women:

Certainly I know that not all “bisexuals” (or “bi-curious” women, for that matter) are Dishonest. SOME of them are very up front about who they are and what they’re about. N.D. Smith is an example of such a woman!

But the sad Truth is she is in the Minority. In far too many cases, "bi" women are not as Honest and therefore, the distrust many lesbians feel about them should be expected.

Add to that the fact that far too many “bi” women turn out to be nothing more than “perps” in it for the sole purpose of getting what they want by ANY means necessary, oftentimes resulting in all kinds of heartache and other madness for whever falls in love with those women!

BTW: I have to agree with Nyah. This does not present "the other side". If only a "perp" would be willing to STEP UP and say "a word" on this topic!

Lastly, I’m a lesbian with a preference and a passion for lesbians Only! But I’ve long wondered about the tendency of many bisexual and “bi-curious” women to seek out the company of lesbians rather than date other bisexual women?!

Again, thanks to N.D. Smith for sharing her story_her honestly is much appreciated!

Nyah

Jasmyne, I do not think you are showing the other side. I think you are showing someone who is truly bisexual. She is honest with who she is, she is not one of those "perpetrating lesbians" you wrote about last week.

And if we must be honest with ourselves, all of us fall somewhere into the Kinsey spectrum. Personally, I fall somewhere between the 5.2- 6 spectrum. For some reason, I seem to have a crush on gay or bisexual men. But I would prefer to be with a woman hands down.

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