Perpetrating Lesbians

Okay so here’s my disclaimer: this isn’t going to be pretty and if you’re easily offended this isn’t the blog for you.  You may quietly exit now.

With that out of the way, I wanted to broach a subject that I’ve been meaning to write about for sometime, but just hadn’t…that is until I read the subject line of my weekly About.com’s Lesbian Life Guide.  And I quote: “Am I a lesbian?”

Now some of you may have received the same email and so I will start by saying that what I’m going to talk about isn’t related to About.com’s Lesbian Life Guide.  The subject line of the email was right on point with recent conversations I’d been having with friends about who is and isn’t a lesbian.

Fact: there are women who are perpetrating among us.  Yes, it’s true.

The latest indication of this was a recent trip to the  club I took---wait no, let me rephrase that, a recent trip to a lesbian club, wherein the main attraction at the end of the night wasn’t one of the female dancers as you might expect, but rather a male dancer that cleaned up and I mean cleaned up!  Not only did he walk away with more money than his handlers could hold, but the women giving him the money were damn near having conniptions and falling all over themselves in the process.  Not a single one of the female dancers that performed before the male dancer raked in nearly as much money or fanfare.

I remember standing towards the back of the room with my friends.  We were all in amazement at how the women, who were assumed to have been lesbian, were fawning over this man.  And I’m going to keep it real.  All of the women drooling over the male dancer were what we like to refer to as “fems.”   While the majority of the women standing on the sidelines were “studs.”  Not to mention that many of the women on the sidelines were watching their woman go crazy ape nuts over this male dancer.

And no---this isn’t a slight against the club.  After all, that dancer wouldn’t be bringing in the dollars like he does if he wasn’t in demand.  It’s just an observation.

Now there is a difference between being bisexual and being lesbian.  Just like there’s a difference between being bisexual and passing time.  Holla!

Now, there’s no consensus among my group of friends on this subject, and quite frankly, I don’t need one.  I know what I know on this subject and it hasn’t steered me wrong yet.

There are women who sleep with women not because they’re lesbian, not even because they’re bisexual (in my opinion), but because their man isn’t treating them right, is locked up, or they don’t have a man at the moment.

These women are almost 100 percent of the time “fem,” many with kids, aren’t interested in really being in a relationship per se with a woman (although that doesn’t mean they won’t give it the ole’ college try), and don’t give a damn about your Movement.  More often than not, they’re interested in “studs” only, for obvious reasons, although that doesn’t mean they won’t mess with a “fem,” but “studs” are usually preferred.  And don’t be shocked if she’s a pillow princess either.

You won’t find these women at a meeting on gay marriage, lol, but you will find them up in the club, on the chat lines, and on the Internet on the prowl for some love and attention from the only place they think they can get it, another woman.

Now I am not hating on bisexuality.  If that’s your thing so be it.  But this isn’t about bisexuality.  This is about women who know good and damn well that they aren’t trying to be in a real relationship with another woman when in fact what they are doing is killing time until he either starts to act right, gets released, or comes along.

These women more often than not don’t contribute anything to the community, except for drama when the shit hits the fan.

I’ve seen it happen too many times.  And quite frankly it’s giving us real lovers of women a bad rep, both inside and outside of the community.

And I’m not oblivious either to the other side of this coin.  The side that has lesbians specifically targeting heterosexual women in an attempt to “turn them out.”  An argument might I add, that is constantly being lodged at lesbians by heterosexual men in an attempt to justify the recent rise in popularity of lesbianism.

But that’s a discussion for another day.

But back to the topic at hand…

I have a friend that I’ve known for over ten years.  She is 28 with five kids.  And in all the time I’ve known her, she been strictly-dickly.  That is until her man got out of line and she found herself alone raising five kids.  All of a sudden I pop up and there’s some stud sitting on her couch and I’m looking at her like what the fuck, cause I know, like she knows, that ain’t her cup of tea.

Her excuse, it beats being alone.

Well that’s great for her until he comes back home, but what about the “stud” sitting on her couch. 

And that’s just one example, there’s plenty more where that came from.

Being a lesbian isn’t something that you can conveniently turn on and off when the mood hits you.  It’s not a fad.  It’s not something that you do for fun.

Just like our ancestors died to make sure that we have the liberties that so many of us take for granted, so did a lot of Black lesbians and it really bothers me to see this disturbing trend on almost a daily basis now.
Now me personally, I don’t get involved with women who aren’t card carrying members of the National Black Lesbians Association, lol.  My gaydar is pretty good and like I said before, it hasn’t steered me wrong yet… on that issue.

But I am curious to hear from both the women that I am talking about and the women who engage these women knowing the situation.   I’m wondering if it’s an issue of low self esteem, the feeling like you can love her better than her man and that dildo is going to make her stay.  What?  Give me something here cause’ inquiring minds want to know.

And for the women who know good and damn well that they aren’t lesbians or even bisexual, why?  What’s your rationale and then how should womenn who are lesbians and in this life for the good and the bad, the ups and the downs, who don’t turn it on and off when the mood hits them, how are we supposed to receive you, especially in this politically charged environment where are our very lives are being debated on daily basis in the pulpit, on the Floor, and in the media?

Everyone else, get in where you fit in. 

Am I trippin’?

CHECK BACK MONDAY FOR A GUEST PIECE FROM A SISTAH WHO IS ON THE OTHER SIDE.  IF YOU HAVE THOUGHTS YOU WANT TO SHARE IN THE FORM OF A COMMENTARY, EMAIL IT TO ME BY CLICKING HERE.

Comments

[Phone Chat Lines]

Nice post. This brings a more open-mided readers.

[Courtney]

I find this entry and the comments attached rather interesting. I've never chosen to define my sexuality. I'm not homosexual, heterosexual or bisexual. I'm fairly certain I'm just sexual. I've been with both women and men and I like them both. I think this is because I'm attracted to the individual and not their genitalia. I know I'm years late at responding to this entry but I find the idea of individuals trying so hard to label themselves silly. Isn't the labeling done by society bad enough?

[SteadyCat]

I'm going to think about some of the things you've mentioned. I have loads to say but sometimes its better to just listen. Thanks for your article.

[Christina C.]

This is my take...

If you are "bi" and you are faithful to one or the other inpeticular sex, than you are not "bi". You are in a relationship that makes you what you are with. If you are with a man in a "faithful" relationship...you are straight...because there is no straying in a "faithful" relationship. Same goes for a "Gay" relationship...if you are in a "faithful" lesbian relationship, your are....DING DING DING DING....A lesbian! That is just common sense. Now, I have been in a faithful relationship for 12 years now...but my partner I think is in denial she is BI. She get's feelings for men very quick and very easy. With that being said...I am always catching the relationship before it completely forms. There was one instance where she dumped me for a guy she worked with (and of course did not tell me) and even wanted to have his baby....but we have been wanting kids. He was a MARRIED man who has been unfaithful around the job and I think she figured it was her chance to move in on him since he was a cheater anyways. I found a condom wrapper in the couch (and she says it was her best friend and her girlfriend using a "dildo" and let her use our apartment for a few hours without my knowledge...) YEAH RIGHT! She did not come up with that on her own. He little dyke best friend that looks like half man/half rat and subsequently likes men (YUK AS IF) helped her with that one. Anyways...she tends to fall for guys at work...already in their own relationships/married and most of all LOSERS! She ALWAYS denies it...but I know what she is doing. She loves little rubber penis and after 12 years convinced me to buy one. I am hoping that will keep her from going astray....but I am thinking maybe it is not only the dick she likes...maybe she likes the hairy nasty beast we call man. Not sure why unless she just likes getting pushed around, cheated on and beat. LOL. She says she gets along better with men...and now I know why. I think her thing is she developes "crushes". NEVER on women however...I have NEVER suspected her of cheating on me with a woman...only men. And she is def FEM. Even her Ex looked like the lead singer of Rascal Flatts....A MAN. I am not that FEM either, but I am certainly no STUD or butch. So can anyone comment....anyone think I am correct....my girl is BI, and always has been because ever since we have been together...she has put me thru this. She is a beautiful woman and yet has VERY poor taste in guys anyways. Fat nasty hairy job-less dope-smokin' losers!

[pamela]

okay jas,

As a bi woman first i want to say that i've always been honest with my partner and it's not about sex. i met my girlfriend @ a cafe. i was reading temple of my familiar and we began to talk about our love for alice walker and her writing. from there we talked about other writers (audre lord, ann carson etc...) we had alot in common and i did not jump into a relationship with her looking for sex nor did i want her money. she was not a stud nor was i a fem we were just 2 women who enjoyed being 2gether. there was no drama and all that to be honest she broke the relationship off with me because she wanted children and to be honest i was finished with kids because i had a 7,5, and 3 year old . maybe u might consider that selfish but i was honest from the beginning. currently im not in a relationship w/ anyone because i don't want to be hurt and also because whoever im with i want 2 have something in common with besides sex. i know this comment is late and it may not even go thru but i just wanted to give u my experience

thanks
got2luv

[I am not a lesbian (thank you for this article)]

I am not a lesbian. Following several traumatic events and experiences with men, I decided to "become" gay cold turkey. I even remember the day I said to my friend "I'm going to be gay because I can't take the hurt from men anymore" and my friend replied "Oh no not you too you're the second friend this week". I gave becoming a lesbian my all, even lived with a woman and got all political about it. The politics were interesting even exciting but the sexual aspect was not because I would literally have to force myself or go outside myself to be with a women. Listen, no real lesbian or bisexual has that many headaches or is never in the mood, no real lesbian or bisexual wants a separate bedroom "just because I want my own space", and it is just so wrong for straight girls to use lesbians to work out their issues regarding men or to exact revenge upon men. But saying I was a lesbian was my straight girl's ultimate revenge and defense against men. It worked. The shock value and look of rejection or disappintment on men's faces was just priceless, especially if the man dissed you in the past. Saying I was a lesbian was also a great way to attract men. Can't beat the men off once you call yourself a lesbian. It works but doesn't mean it's right. It's a manipulative game. And of course I was giddy with male attention and of course I didn't want to resist and had boyfriends all the time because I am heterosexual and was perpetrating. But then when you fall in love with a man and reveal to him that you are really straight they lose interest. Why? Because the men that like perpetrators are only interested in turning out. I did eventually grow out of my hurt and stopped perpetrating even if it meant being alone. I hope my honesty is a helpful. I was literally never attracted to women, just learned the language, the style, the inuendo, and how to close my eyes and pretend I was with a man or dream of my dream man to come along. This is the truth from a straight girl who perpetrated.

[Cbltblu7]

Honesty is what needs to happen not only in the Black community, but everywhere else also. To each his own-ONLY if that is done in honesty!!! If you're a straight girl looking for whatever and you admit it upfront, ok. But if you aren't, don't be surprised by the ill feelings you get from the community. As much as we want the studs to not encourage the perps, for whatever reason some go willingly into that trap. However, the ones I care about are the ones lied to, who after however many months are left with a broken heart, empty bank account, and feeling like crap. I'm not saying everyone has to have a label or even know what they want, but be upfront about it!!!! I dated a woman (she was 2 months pregnant when I met her-she told me that it was a result of rape.) who said she was a bi-sexual and had been sleeping with girls for 9 years. So I thought, ok not an experiment then. She told me that she only wanted to be with me, that she loved me etc. What she really wanted was someone (anyone I think) to take care of her, give her money, a cell phone, a place to stay, etc. It was drama like I had never seen before. In the end, she went off with some guy, then to some girl and her boyfriend and got her baby taken away from her. I was left hurt and felt a real loss at never getting to see her son grow up. Relationships are tough enough on their own let alone when you add in someone who is lying the whole time.

[Tenise]

Sorry I stepped away from the conversation: I became ill. I am still ill, but at least I am upright enough now to type!

I agree with GreenEyesLilo and other bisexuals who defended our right to call ourselves bisexual, even if/when we are in relationship with a lesbian.

I believe that part of the problem stems from the fact that a lot of women who come out and either know or suspect that they are bisexual may not know themselves and their minds enough in the beginning, and so they allow themselves to be influenced to come out as a lesbian. Let me explain.

When you are new to "the life," and you have this woman that you are madly in love with and her friends telling you that lesbians will give you the stink eye and forever second guess your motives if you come out as a bisexual, and you don't know any better, a lot of women cave.

I know that my first girlfriend tried to do that with me. She called herself a lesbian, even though she was and still is the furthest thing from a lesbian that ever walked the earth. She insisted that I "had to be a lesbian, because only lesbians throw down like that (her words, not mine. I think that she was trying to flatter me)."

I had the presence of mind to ignore her, because I hate liars. I had to be one to survive all those years in Catholic school so that I could come out in college, and I was not about to lie one second more.

And for the record, she cheated on me and broke my heart, not the other way around. I was extremely lucky to not get a disease that she got from sleeping with someone while she was sleeping with me.

I have never cheated on my male partner of three years after my first girlfriend, my female partner of six years after him, or my current (and last) female fiance of four years on December 31st.

I think that it is grossly unfair to paint all bisexuals with the "unfaithful cheating whore who has to have dick" brush. We all know someone that has cheated, whether they are gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgendered, intersexed, pansexual or fill in the blank. I am not the only "faithful" bisexual; I know that there are others.

What I suggest, and this may rub some the wrong way is: Anyone has the right to date whomever they want, whenever they want, however they want. However, regardless of what they "say" they are, we all have a little voice that speaks up whenever we see something that just doesn't add up.

How about listening to that voice (and sometimes it comes in the form of a friend), instead of ignoring it just because a woman is fine, intelligent or smart, or because you are lonely or need to get laid. Then perhaps we can stop bashing each other because you are mad it didn't work. I learned that lesson from my first girlfriend. The first time. Just a thought.

Jasmyne, feel free to contact me or forward my email to anyone who wants to discuss this with me further.

[Damion]

First, much love to everyone.

This is an issue of whether a person can be monogamous or not - not perpetrating as lesbian/gay. Some of us has reached a point in their lives where they want to build a strong frienship/relationship with their love partner. For some, it's all about pleasure whether they are a lesbian, bisexual, bicurious, gay, or straight. It doesn't matter. Some people are just seeking pleasure. Plain and simple.

[gisselle]

i recently came out early this year... & i'm still in my teens & as much as this annoys me... a lot of girls my age will pretend to be lesbian/bisexual so as to attract more men.. With most people its really about experimenting & attracting a lot of guy attention...

If this continues....we as LESBIANS will never ever be taken seriously.... BUT then agen who says u're not lesbian if u just admire the opposite sex's body...i'm not saying i'm attracted to them...but if a guys hot one should admit...no hating...

[Jeannie]

Jas,
The women you describe who are "bi" enjoying the men in thongs and sleeping around, are they not swingers too?

I myself was bi for soooooooo long due to the stigma my sister had to wear for so long after she came out to my family. While I was bi I too slept with married women who should have been lesbian, but just married their soul mate and security blanket.

My idea of "bi" was the fact I like to believe I love each person for who they are and I really felt all are beautiful people until they show their true colors.

For me now that I have learned to love myself and face the fact I have been gay all along but was afraid to come out, the rainbow color is my flag now.

But still while coming out I have not been accepted by the general crowd here in the third largest gay community this side of Hollywood and San Fran... Long Beach.

And the fact that I am a beautiful fem I can't even get anyone to reply to my emails seriously. Instead I get the women who are out for years but yet still can't post a picuture on their profile on a lesbian web site. IF these women are so proud and loud then live it by showing yourselves! Sorry another subject altogether.

Yes the other thing is small clicks of lesbian butch women all look down at me and are totally rude when ever I a fem come into their bars or are invited to their parties. I thought the gay community was not supposed to discriminate. But in reality they do, against others that don't fit into the perfect coming out mold.

If women who had children and a marriage come out, why can't all accept them and not judge them for having fun admiring men in thongs, who cares what their excitement or hobbie are.

As for me since coming out I have had more lesbian women admit to a true fem, they once in a while enjoy some "dickly" and are sickly hiding it from their close friends.

Why can't women, butch, fem or even men enjoy each and everyones body for entertainment with out being judged!

The next time you see a hot fem, stop questioning in your mind and ask them to tell you straight out what are you doing? Be true to yourself and educate!

Singular4fun

[Smashley]

I find this completely ridiculous that no one sees the irony of lesbian women judging a group of people based on their sexuality. This is ridiculous! I would think that this group of women would be the first to recognize that there is variation in people's sexual orientation and that you cannot make assumptions about a varied group of people. Apparently I am wrong. Maybe it's like how the bullied kids at school pick on their brothers and sisters at home.

Maybe the problem with these relationships isn't your past partners sexuality... maybe its the fact that most relationships - straight or gay - eventually end. That's life - and most of the time, the end isn't pretty. There are a lot of heartbreakers out there - I've met a few lesbians who would fit that title in my time too. Doesn't mean that I can generalize a large group of people because of a few incidents.

Bi-phobia is completely unfair and I can't wait until the day that no one is judged for their sexuality. Wouldn't it be nice if the gay community could set the example? But again, can't assume that just because I know some smart, open-minded gay people that all of you are.

[Priestess]

I am a lesbian. Period. For as long as I've ever felt anything. Ain't never had an issue with it. But I get mistaken for "straight" all the time. So I've been accosted by bisexual and bicurious women too often. It was so often I began to wonder where all the femme lesbians had gone. Now I've become an expert at avoiding the bullsh*t altogether. Here's why based on my experience alone:

1. bi women see me as a piece of azz and a potentially good lay and that's it
2. sex seems to be the main ingredient for many bi women
3. inexperienced bi women want me to turn them out
4. bi women don't seem to understand why i am not the least bit interested
5. bi women see me as a challenge because (I'd been told) that studs, butches or whatever are "easy", but i wasn't
6. bi women have looked at me crazy when i told them that i am actually gay
7. bi women have tried to convert me to being bi because they can't imagine why i would want to be gay
8. bi women seem perplexed that i don't take them up on their offers
9. every bi woman who has ever tried to get at me had the same above-mentioned characteristics
10. so i avoid them altogether

Again, this has been my experience. I'm sure bi women are just as diverse as gay women, but I just don't have the patience to figure out who's who.

I placed an ad on an online women's site a few years ago and one of my criteria was that she must NOT be bisexual. A woman wrote back that she thought my ad was interesting but that I was biased against bisexual women. She went on and on and on about how unfair I was being. I never responded. It takes up too much energy to try and make a bisexual woman see my point and vice versa. I don't care that you're bisexual. Definitely do your thing. Just don't trip if I don't give you the time of day.

[truelife]

As it turns out, being gay is just like being straight. Just because you are sincere, honest and respectable doesn't mean that every person you date will be the same way.

A lot of straight women fall for men who are secretly bisexual and likewise, many lesbians fall for women who'd rather be with men. Many str8 women are devastated when they find out their man is on the down-low and many lesbians are heartbroken when they discover that their partner longs to be with a man.

There are some people who should stay out of the dating scene until they can figure themselves out. If you don't know if you could ever truly commit to someone of the same sex, you shouldn't lead them on! The same thing goes for those who know they don't quite fit in heterosexual relationships.

This is simple people. If everyone would just be honest with themselves and the people they dated we wouldn't have this problem. If you are polyamorus and want to date more than one person at the same time just make that clear up front. Or, if you are bisexual and don't want to commit to someone of the same sex, say so. Bisexuals who want to make lifetime monogamous commitments should declare that too.

Take the time to get to know yourself and the person you are dating BEFORE going to bed with them!

[latinaladybutch]

My goodness ladies! Are there haters out there or what? I am an out lesbian, been out for over 20 years. Was married first and had 2 children but was always attracted to women so there is no doubt for me that I am a lesbian. What I want to say is that sexuality runs a wide spectrum and most stay at one end or the other but many move back and forth according to their emotional and psychological experiences and needs in their lives. Should we hate them and ostracize them for that? We are human beings and have the gift to constantly choose moment to moment who we are. Those of us who have no doubt and prefer not to deal with women who are strictly lesbian should just stick to them. But how many wonderful opportunities for love would you lose if you reject someone who isn't sure. I for one believe it is better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.

[Resa]

Wow, Interesting..amazing how you always assume that you are the only one something like this has happened to..My story may be familiar to some, I was in ( what I thought ) a 2 year relationship with a woman. Only to find out many years later she is not a lesbian so she claims, what she does claim is this, >> I love you, and we were so good together, and I am not good with words and I didnt know any other way to show you, besides making love to you! but I am not a lesbian << it took her 6 years , 20 grand and my heart for her to finally confess this, that not only like you said she had no intentions of being in a lesbian relationship but then told me I was part of a phase she was going through during her depression? and here is the funny part..she asked me was I upset? I asked her how would she feel if I came to her and told her the last 6 years of her life was a lie?....how this all relates is as you stated once again...A lesbian relationship was good enough until a man 15 years older, with enough money came along to take care of her..someone she could take home to her family...now don't make any mistakes someone that afraid of something feeling good and right doesn't have a place by my side and has done the right thing by moving on. It's just a point that I wanted to make...This is my first time at this site but this issue is right on the money!!!

[Maggie]

Oh my, you really are getting hammered for this!

No, your not going off on a tangent. The things you are bring up are true and they do happen.

I think its just disrespect on the part of the "Bisexual". What they are doing has nothing to do with sexuality. Its about filling an emotional void. It could also be a way to empower them selves, ex. "oh he left me i'll show him... i'm gonna do a woman."

People who do that need to be told that they are taking advantage of others.

[Josie]

It's sickening to read that some lesbians, who may think of themselves as "the experts", (since they pass judgement so easily on other lesbians) - suggest that just because a "fem" is attracted to studs, or may have children, they're not really a lesbian. I will gladly cancel my membership to about.com lesbian life.

[GreenEyedLilo]

Why would a bisexual woman married to a lesbian still call herself bisexual? If you really want to know, rather than fill in what you think are the answers yourself:

*Because I honor the two men I have loved in the past. Just because our relationships depreciated like new cars becoming old doesn't mean they were bad men or bad relatinoships.

*Because I honor and own my true fantasies and feelings. I don't look at male race car drivers and UPS men like a lesbian. I look at them like a bisexual woman--I get attracted to them. I won't do anything, but I get attracted. It's like the way my crush on Sinead O'Connor (who is Irish) doesn't invalidate my love for my Russian woman--nobody tells her she's going to have to prepare for the day I leave her for an Irish person. But my wife's warned about how I'll leave her for a man all the time, when I have no intention of leaving, EVER.

*Because I honor my wife and my other relationships. I want to deal with the ones I love truthfully. I want them to know my past, present, and future. I want them to be honest with me, and I can't expect that if I'm not honest.

*Finally, because I honor myself. I know who and what I am. I didn't stop being 50/50 bisexual and identifying as such for my boyfriends, and I won't for my wife, either. It doesn't work like that. I've been this way since I was *little*, and frankly, I don't see much wrong with it. The only thing wrong with it is the way so many straight and lesbian people react to it.

[Truthiz]

@Truelife: Good question!

That's right up there with the question as to WHY do most "bisexuals" and "bi-curious" women have a tendency to hook-up with REAL lesbians rather than other bisexuals?!

[truelife]

I have a question for Tenise and all other bisexual women who are engaged to or married to lesbians. If you are serious about spending the rest of your life with one woman in a monogamous relationship, why do you identify as bisexual? Wouldn't it make you a lesbian if you are only going to have sex with one woman for the rest of your life?

Many lesbians have been with men in the past -- prior to coming out of the closet and becoming comfortable with their sexuality. But once you realize that you want to get married an start a family with another woman, doesn't that make you a lesbian?

Why must you hold on to the identity of bisexual or bicurious after you have committed your life to a lesbian relationship?

[Tenise]

As a Black bisexual woman who is engaged to my Black lesbian partner of four years, I find some of these comments about bisexual women disturbing.

I think that everyone is confusing women who are users pretending to be bisexual with actual bisexual women. I think that the Black GLBTI community needs to be careful that we don't perpetuate stereotypes about bisexuals based upon anecdotal evidence.

Just because some of the women here haven't met honest, monogamous, real bisexual women, doesn't mean that they don't exist. That stereotype could easily be used against Black lesbian women too.

[VERB]

Omi Femi, you put it down. Great post!

[JustMe]

I've been following this post for a few days and I find it very interesting. But I don't think it has anything to do with labels or whatever these women like to classify themselves as... I am so tired of these women bisexual/bicurious/doing whatever-makes-them-feel-good that are using women to get through a rough spot in their lives. I see it all the time.. I have a friend that has admitted that she only dates women when she needs an emotional connection and if she finds a man that can do that her girlfriend of over a year is in the wind.

Most of the blame is on these using ass women and thats why many Lesbians choose not to date bisexuals or women that have had relationships with men recently. Most of my friends only go for "Gold Star" Lesbians because they feel like atleast that way they know the women have the intention of a relationship with you because you are a woman.

Perps are giving a bad rep to Bisexuals that really want relationships and Lesbians that like this trend because it puts notches on their "turning girls out" belt..thats another shame.

This is the way girls act in high school..its just really sad that some people never grow up :(

Thanks for the topic Jasmyne..

[LesB]

Couldn't agree with you more. The definition of lesbian used to be so easy. A woman who is attracted to, has sex with (when she can), and wants to be with a woman. Is this so hard for other people to get? Bi-sexuals are not lesbians and should have no say in lesbian issues or lesbian life. They are just women-hurting-women. And straight women using lesbians to hurt men are just as bad. Or worse. And a dime a dozen. So hard to find a real lesbian these days. So many don't want to be labeled. Well, I'm proud of the label and always have been.