My Love Hate Relationship With Hip-Hop

As I sit here typing this, in the background I am playing Biz Markie’s “Just A Friend.”  Right before this song came on I was listening to Above the Law’s “V.S.O.P.”  Yeah, definitely two ends of the spectrum but both under the umbrella of hip-hop.

I was born in 1977.  That means that I am 29 years old but more importantly it means that I grew up so to speak during the 80s and the 90s.  I grew up during XClan, Salt-N-Pepa, Kriss Kross, Milli Vanilli, New Kids on the Block, J.J. Fad, and others.

But don’t let my name dropping fool you.

I didn’t grow up in Los Angeles proper.  Nope.  Thanks to my parents, I spent my younger childhood years in a Hermosa Beach, a small beach community suburb of Los Angeles.  With relatively few Blacks around back then, my early musical influences were rock and not rap or R&B.

In other words, I was a Madonna, Van Halen, Police, Cyndi Lauper loving Black girl.  Sure was.

That was until, my parents divorced and I begin to split my time between Compton and Hermosa Beach.  Yeah, the CPT.

That’s when I was introduced to Will Smith and DJ Jazzy Jeff, Salt-N-Pepa, X-Clan and the like and that as they say, is that.

I loved me some rap.  Loved it.  I loved Eazy-E, NWA, Ice Cube, Mack 10, Tha Dogg Pound, Suga Free, you name it, I knew it and word for word.  I am not afraid to admit that yes, I was one of the people I criticize today.  In fact, I was Napster’s biggest fan.  It’s because of Napster that I own thousands of songs today from back in the day that I can sit and play and analyze the lyrics to, like tonight.

And that’s pretty much how it was until I was about 22 years old.  At 22 I met two deejays that changed my musical taste for life.  DJ Garth Trinidad of KCRW’s Chocolate City and DJ Kristi Lomax of KPFK’s Restless Soul.  Through them I was introduced to a crop of artists both signed and unsigned who were making good music that wasn’t about hos, bitches, gold chains, rims, low riding, etc.  That was also around the time that I started to get involved politically in Black Los Angeles and well, you should know that story by now.

So, basically when I began to look at the bigger picture, that perpetual cycle of degrading music that is then played out in real life in our neighborhoods with the way that we treat each other, I started looking at things differently.  And as hard as it was, and I mean it was hard, I began to stop listening to certain music because I know longer felt it, like I did before.

Which is not to say that I abandoned hip-hop because I didn’t.  There’s a tremendous amount of hip-hop out there that doesn’t degrade women or use the N word.  Most people would never know unless they are into the underground hip-hop scene because labels have saturated the market with that other crap.  But there is a thriving market out there, I know because I am a part of it. 

So when Don Imus said what he said and we did what we did and America reacted, I thought hey, maybe it takes a white man calling us “nappy-headed hos” for us to take up a real discussion on today’s music and our role in it.

What I find interesting is the poll results from my question on who’s to blame for the degrading lyrics in hip-hop, the labels, artists, or the consumers.  Apparently, from my poll, it’s the consumers, which quite frankly is where I am at with the whole issue as well.

I’ve spoken to many people who say, don’t discount the label executives in all of this, and believe me, I don’t.  But I think at the end of the day, they sign artists that can market and that they know we will buy.  Then I get the line about white kids being the number one consumer of hip-hop.  Yeah, okay, I guess.  I think that as Black people we are still the trendsetters.  If we don’t like, they don’t like it.  We buy music too.  On any corner in parts of Los Angeles I can get 3 CDs for $5.  They must not be counting the black market, no pun intended, in their counts.  I know we buy it because everyday I am in my car I end on the side of someone bumping it. 

In my final analysis, the bone that needs to be picked doesn’t begin and end with the labels and the artists.  Afterall, they’re in it for the money.  What’s our excuse, why do we buy it and listen to it? And I’ not trying to hear about how nice the beat is, because if that were the case, we’d be buying instrumentals and forgoing the lyrics all together of which we are not doing.

And I mean this questions isn’t for those of us that get it, it’s for those of us that don’t get it.  The ones who sit around and complain about little Jimmy using the b-word but never once thinking about the fact that Mommy says it all the time.

I’m talking about the Pookie’s on the block that have no job and ride around in old ass cars with no tags on triple Dayton’s, with a sound system that rattles your windows.

Why aren’t we talking to them?  It seems to me that if Black America is really going to have this conversation then we are going to have to go to the very people who listen to the music.  This conversation can’t be held in the churches only or with our national Black spokespeople.  Uh huh, if it was up to me we’d be at the Slauson Swapmeet on the first Saturday of the month doing an informal survey.  I’m tired of talking to the choir, I want to talk to the passer-byers now.  If you know what I mean.

Since I work in the heart of Compton and in the same vicinity as the local parole office, I think I am going to have to do some fieldwork and talk to some folks about this.  Shouldn’t be too hard, like I said, I work in Compton.  I need to know from the street level what the sentiment is. 

Time to dust of my microphone and hit the streets.  Maybe when I’m done in Compton, I’ll go over to the Slauson Swapmeet and set up shop.  Again, the field is just ripe for the picking, if you know what I mean.

My challenge to some of you would be to do the same, talk to people who actually listen to this music and find out why they listen to it given the lyrics, especially the Black women that support it.

Let me know what you find out and I’ll tell you what I find out.

I’m sure we can get to the bottom of this madness and curb this self destruction.

Comments

[VERB]

@ Da...

I agree that just because the issues are systemic, that doesn't mean that W/we do nothing. But TRUST, those rappers obviously have some of the same issues or else they wouldn't be spewing nonsense. I agree that it's going to take a collective effort and hard decisions, but W/we'll also have to keep in mind that everyone isn't interested in changing. What then?

[VERB]

@ nunya...

Great point about instrumentals. I once worked in a music store and any instrumentals that came in were on vinyl for DJ use. Most customers didn't even own turntables so they were S.O.L. in terms of purchasing an instrumental.

Not sure how deep your knowledge goes in hip hop, but producer Pete Rock put out "Petestrumentals." Sadly J Dilla passed away last year but his music is still available. Also, Madlib and MF Doom have done instrumental CDs.

I will add that it's unfortunate that you have "quit" hip hop. You are indeed missing out on many artists. I just posted a few on Keith Boykin's blog: Boots Riley, Hieroglyphics, Immortal Technique... I gotta say that I'm kind of surprised you just left it alone completely. By you being a former producer, you know the game with labels and greedy record execs. I hope you don't think radio/TV are the only means to learning about what's out there in hip hop. BE peace, nunya.

[Da]

"We'll have to go waaaaay beyond hip hop to solve those issues."

I'm not sure I agree with this.

It's like when Oprah asked during her townmeeting on the issue: "Do we have to solve poverty before (the rich) rappers stop saying ho?"

There is a choice factor in all of this. And until the black community realizes that it's not about the white man telling us what to do or not -- it's about us understanding that language informs the way we think, behave, and feel about ourselves. The longer we perpetuate the idea that we're "street", "ghetto", and "cool like that" it's going to inform what we aspire to be as a community.

It's time to rewrite the future, and I think it starts with making some hard decisions at our level.

[nunya]

Well, I like this post on the issue more than other posts of yours just because I feel like it's the first time you haven't placed the blame in one place. Other people have made interesting points, so I'm going to point out something different.

I think the people you want us to talk to have already let us know in various ways different reasons why they make this music and/or support this music. You're in the media, so you must have heard them. Whenever a rapper is on a talk show, such as "Oprah" or even "Ellen" when Ludacris was on one time this past year, they end up in the hot seat over this and they state their opinions.

Second, you discount one of the reasons--the music is good vs instrumentals. I have to question how often instrumentals are available, unless you know someone in the industry who can provide you with one. I'm just a few years younger than you, and I have essentially quit hip hop. I agree with the people who said some rap artists back in the 80s and 90s used language we don't seem to like now but they used them in ways that, I suppose, were easier to justify and stomach, i.e. they had real messages. I think this is one of the reasons why I don't like today's hip hop, because I don't think many of them are really saying anything--at least the songs they release to the radio, because I've heard songs by popular artists that are a bit more substantial than their songs that make it to the radio.

I say this to say that when I was a kid, those more "conscious" artists...I cared more about their music. I pulled out NWA either last summer or the summer before to relive the good ole days and, for the first time, realized they sometimes talked about more than just effing women, because I had never truly listened to the lyrics before. Now that I'm at the age where I can't ignore lyrics, I just ignore a lot of music on the whole. And I know people who have come to me and asked me about a hip hop song they liked by Jay-Z or Ludacris and inquired about just getting an instrumental. I would look and look--no luck. Because I used to be a music producer, I have offered to use my equipment to take instrumental parts of the full recording and just loop them together to make it sound like an instrumental track for a couple people...but this is not something the average person would think about doing, nor go to the trouble of doing.

Finally, I do think a lot of non-blacks are hip hop fans. And I agree blacks are influential, but not in the way you think. I don't think rappers are viewed by these people as a "trend" so much as they are a joke. Look at all the offensive costume/theme parties that keep happening at universities. Those kids are not saying they want to be like these people; indeed, some of those parties were at law schools, so they are trying to be the farthest away from these rappers as they can be. They are making fun of black people, not just rappers but *on the whole.* I honestly think that's why so many of them--not all of them--like hip hop. It's a parody or satire genre for many of them.

It's interesting to me that you want to go to the streets to speak with people, given the last two examples I've given of how you seem to dismiss some issues already given. No offense, but sometimes I wonder how much attention you even pay to people who comment on your blog and what they/we say (and it can be pointed out that I don't even allow comments on my blog, but my blog is meant to respond to popular viewpoints in other blogs and their comments so that I can discuss issues/points other people don't, which means I *do* pay attention to what others say). Don't go out there if you're not really going to listen to these people and think about what they say. Don't go out there with the mindset that they are totally wrong and just don't get it, or else you're not going to get anything from it. Obviously, some people just simply don't feel the same way as you do about hip hop. So approach with an open mind and an eye towards figuring out how to solve the problem of the degradation of blacks and females in hip hop, if that's what you're trying to do.

[teka]

Do you know something that is very odd? Ok you're not a mind reader, but something I found interesting was that when I listened to NWA (at the time I never listened to them) they were shockingly political. I know it's werid, but if you listen to the pop alternative bands during that time and you listen to NWA, it was shockingly raw and critiqued parts of society that were not getting talked about.

I know it's weird and NWA did some bad things, but oddly they were sort of political in retrospect, at least to me.

"I’m talking about the Pookie’s on the block that have no job and ride around in old ass cars with no tags on triple Dayton’s, with a sound system that rattles your windows.

Why aren’t we talking to them? It seems to me that if Black America is really going to have this conversation then we are going to have to go to the very people who listen to the music." Jasmyne

Yes this is very, very true. I think there is a class divide in the black community and we need to close it or we need to shut our mouths when degrading songs become number one.

Many of these hip hops stars do not care what the black academia says, because black academia thinks they are trash and they know it.

I mean really, the only time black people with degrees even go talk to "certain" kind of black people is to say, "Why don't you quiet down, you're making us look bad..." And to tell you the truth, I wouldn't give a shit what someone who came at me like that said either.

Yes we need to start talking to people (in a human manner) before they make "us" look bad.

Teka

[Nyah]

Dear Jasmyne, like the second person I have to disagree with you. I am a hip-hop fan, and I listen to songs that have n****, h***, and b****. However, I listen to the entire message of the song , the lyrical skills of the artist.

For example, Common, Mos Def, Talib Kweli use these words in some of their songs. However, I dont recount the message they have of black empowerment and being conscious. There was a song called F*** the police. Now you may have not liked the words in the song, but the message was clear. The police was not treating the black community with respect.

Now on the issue of women, I do agree with you that women are being insulted. But I think there should be a balance. C'mon Jasmyne, are you telling me you dont like seeing a woman in a bathing suit dancing in a video once in a while? But I do think that as we see these types of women, we can see other women who are not so scantily clad in their dress. Everything must have a balance.

But Jasmyne, I agree with VERB until you start to address the underlying issues your talk is meaningless about hip-hop. Not saying ho', bitch or nigga is not going to stop the conditions in the community. It is not going to stop a teenage girl getting pregnant. It is not going to stop the drug use or the violence in the community. And until we start touching that, then nothing will be solved.

[VERB]

Hitting the streets may satisfy some but I believe that it's an exercise in futility. I'm about 99% sure that once these folks get to talking, their reasons why they think misogyny and homophobia are okay, their answers will end up rooted in systemic issues (no father present, drug/alcohol-abusing parent, inadequate school systems, impoverished communities, poor parenting, etc). Unless the person asking the questions comes prepared with all the solutions needed (a father for the home, successful drug treatment, great new schools, a new neighborhood thriving with opportunity, mature parents that care), the whole idea will be a waste of time. With all due respect, Jasmyne, these folks have systemic issues that a Black lady with a mic can't fix. We'll have to go waaaaay beyond hip hop to solve those issues.

[Tyrone]

Excellent topic Jas, while I graduated high school the same year you were born, I also recall he "good" rap, and still to this day can sing along with most of the Sugar Hill stuff that one of my brothers played 100 times a day.

that said, I bought one NWA cd, their first I think, after hearing a song on the radio, not knowing it was "cleaned up" for the public, once I put that CD in, in the trash it went after about 5 minutes. Same thing with the so called Queen of hip hop Mary J., once CD and the intro song had that vile n-word in, so, not one shred of respect for her either and in the trash bin that one went as well. So, $20 bucks that could have bought a share of stock, but, never again would I waste a penny found on the street at the swap meet on any rap product!

You can be creative with rap and hip hop without demeaning women and the black race as a whole, but, that would require talent, something few of them possess.