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Thursday, April 12, 2007

Comments

VERB

@ Stuffed Animal...

I found a group of individuals that understand the real issues at hand and the ways in which W/we can tackle it. I'm on board working with them to do My part to achieve the right goals. Arguing with you is fruitless and doesn't help the action that needs to take place. Do what ya gotta. I'm bored now and hitting the mute button. Be peace, though.

Stuffed Animal

VERB:

"I said free speech is guaranteed, but what goes over free public airwaves should be monitored more closely. It just shouldn't be taken away from a person because W/we don't agree with it."

Okay, we agree on this, then. But when did I ever say that free speech should be suppressed if somebody doesn't agree with it? I've never said that.

"The point was that somewhere there's some super-conservative Christian that . . . might try to make the same argument saying my Lesbian lifestyle was disgusting and I should not be speaking or writing about it freely. They may insist that my lifestyle and ability to speak freely and be 'out' is treading on their belief system as a Christian. It is ridiculous, but they will do it because they try to argue that same poppycock now. The bottom line is that everybody will find something to complain about."

I'm not talking about whatever "somethings" people complain about. I'm talking specifically about racist, misogynist and heterosexist hate speech that falls into the unprotected categories of libel, threats and obscenity. That kind of speech should be restricted, not banned, but restricted. If that's also your position, then we're basically on the same page.

Now, VERB darling, you read this passage s-l-o-w-l-y. There is a clear difference between being offended for ideological or theological reasons by what somebody says or does in the public sphere, and being offended by libelous talk, threatening words, or vulgar words and images. You don't have to be a Right Wing ideologue to find those things objectionable. Granted, the definition of obscenity can be somewhat nebulous under the law; but given how frequently Gay people speak of themselves and are spoken about in the media, I think a Right Winger would have a wicked hard time arguing in court that merely identifying as a Lesbian amounts to obscene speech. In fact, I'm sure that person would be laughed right out of court. Only a fringe population would consider the word "Gay" vulgar. Only a fringe population would consider the word "Lesbian" vulgar. However, a hella bunch of people consider the word "hoe" vulgar. Don Imus and his fellow shock jock bigots should be prosecuted for using language like that over the airwaves, and they would be if the FCC was doing its job.

BTW, there's no such thing as a Lesbian "lifestyle". Who you do or don't sleep with doesn't constitute a "lifestyle." What's more, Lesbians live in many different ways. When you use incorrect terminology like that, you reinforce the distorted picture of LGBT people that's being circulated by James Dobson and other hetero-fascists. That wasn't sarcasm on my part, it was truth-telling. That last line in your previous post wasn't called "sarcasm" either. It was called called "attitude", and my goodness gracious, you are overflowing with it!

ALBERT:

"The images that Rap lyrics depict are a snapshot of the reality of the artists and the communities they come from . . . art throughout history has always been a reflection of the culture."

First, let me say that a lot of these Rappers aren't anywhere near as streetwise as they claim to be; the visual and verbal imagery they market is not a reflection of their reality. Second, I remember in the past when artists like Gil-Scott Heron, Stevie Wonder and Curtis Mayfield also made music that created a "snapshot" of urban culture. It could be gritty, sure, but children could safely listen to most of that music. I wonder how the Old School artists managed to convey ghetto reality without insulting women, vilifying Gay people, and casting aspersions on the dignity of the Black community? Did they know something today's artists don't? Or is that they had a moral conscience and were interested in more than just making money? Finally, as I stated elsewhere, when your community doesn't look or feel anything like what's depicted in Gangsta Rap videos, then begins to look and feel like that a few years after young people have started emulating the Gangsta Rap artists and videos they love, a strong argument can be made that life can also reflect art!

". . . the images the rap artists depict are not the reality of all Black people."

You're damn skippy. They're not even the reality of most Black people.

"But, we are not the cause of racism and misogyny in America and we never have been."

What does it matter if we're not the cause of racism and misogyny if we perpetuate racism and misogyny? The effect is just as bad as the cause.

"Black people are not even the primary financial supporters of HipHop, not are we the profiteer."

Who cares if Black people are not "the primary financial supporters"? Who buys and who makes the most money off of raunchy and violent Gangsta/Rap is irrelevant here. Laying all the blame on White people will not fix this problem. Rappers, songwriters, producers, promoters and record executives taking responsiblity for the harmful aspects of their product, regardless of skin color, is what will fix this problem. What can also fix it is consumers of Rap music thinking twice before they support "artists" who specialize in derogatory and threatening product.

"This idea of blaming Rap for the problem is unthoughtful and bankrupt."

Just because vulgar and violent Rap music isn't the only reason our culture has coarsened doesn't mean it shouldn't accept its share of the criticism! It isn't a question of "do we blame White shock jocks, or do we blame Black Rappers?" If we crack down on one and give the other a free pass, we've wasted our time. If we ignore our own complicity, we've wasted our time. All Americans must collectively identify and check the behavior that's contributed to turning our national media culture into a toilet stool.

JASMYNE:

Sweet honey child, you represented well on "Dateline NBC" last night. I was proud of you.

lisa

internalized racism and sexism in the black community is completely seperate from the racism emitted from privileged white males towards women and particularly women of color. i am a black woman and yes, i am tired of the the misogynistic, violent, and trite lyrics in rap music; but i am not for one second fooled into thinking that rap music INFLUENCED don imus to utter the words "nappy headed hos", "jiggaboos vs. wannabes", or to mock pbs reporter gwen ifill as the "cleaning lady covering the white house", and maya angelou's poetry as "Whitey plucked you from the jungle; for too many years took away your pride, your dignity and your spears". don't let the the issue of lyrics in rap music supercede and derail the issues that don imus and many other white males have with women of color no matter HOW ACCOMPLISHED THEY ARE.

starr

ITA albert. it's the equivalent of blaming all AA's for the opinions/activisim of al and jesse as if there is only one brain among the entire group of people. yet the mainstream media never admit that these two men are the first people "they" seek out for opinions.
i have not nor ever will abdicate my ability to think/speak for myself to people i don't know. i consider that irresponsible as well as ignorant. i also agree with the profiteer/support aspect of your post. if white people can once again benefit from the artistry, pain, anger, and work of AA's then at least this time they ARE getting PAID this time!! (remember slavery). HOWEVER, that does not mean that AA's don't have responsibilities to themselves and each other. for our entire exisitance in the world and especially america we have been a people of GOD and lived by the creed that HE don't like ugly. that implies that we know better and therefore should do better. i consider "better" to begin in the home with the mind and heart. parents have the mandatory obligation to raise children not interested in the hearing or participating in the saying of lyrics in degenerate rap. if/since children don't have jobs, then rest assured it is parental deficiencies that allow the children to partake of the mediums of disgust (such as
clothing,music,videos,language,books,etc.) in which they are exposed to the decay by products that injure them. it is not up to children to make choices for what is best for them because they don't know what that is nor do they have any forsight and experience for the future and knoweledge of the ways past decisions affect their futures. providing children with firm foundations and access to people of the closest ilk to your own attitudes and morals in as many ways as possible is one of many steps that can be taken to retake our communities. that does not mean it must be done with hate, injury, and/or judgement towards others but with true compassion and respect for the outcome of our people. that is a collective obligation, and frankly we deserve better than we are doing and thereby receiving!!in this way we will all be teachers and providers of own with clarity to what is important to us. even then we will have our challenges because we are not all the same but my opinion is that there are more decents among us than indecents: THANK GOD.

Albert

I am terribly afraid that we are falling into the trap that has been set by the mainstream media. This most recent incident of racial insensitivity and sexism has managed to focus the light of racism back on black people. As if we are responsible for racism and misogyny in America. While I in no way condone the lyrics many rap artists use and choose not support it in anyway, it is clear to me that they are not the cause, they are the effect. The images that rap lyrics depict are a snapshot of the reality of the artists and the communities they come from. Art has always imitated life. Art throughout history has always been a reflection of the culture. For centuries societies have tried to blame artists for moral decay when it was the artist who were bringing the moral decay to the attention of society. Instead of society dealing with its issues, it has always chosen the easy way out; killing the messenger. There is no doubt that the black community needs to do a little house keeping of our own. To that I will also add that the images the rap artists depict are not the reality of all Black people. But, we are not the cause of racism and misogyny in America and we never have been. Black people are not even the primary financial supporters of HipHop, not are we the profiteer. This idea of blaming rap for the problem is unthoughtful and bankrupt.

VERB

Stuffed Animal, I can tell you like Me. You should read a little more s-l-o-w-l-y. Let's start here...

you: As for speaking freely in appropriate settings, I'm all for it. But that's not what I was talking about. The public airwaves is not an appropriate place for people to vent their bigotry and misogyny with language that's as raw as it can get.

Me: I've already agreed to those things so what's your point? If you have read any of My posts on the topic, I have been stating that all along. Maybe you have Me mixed up with someone else.I said free speech is guaranteed but what goes over free public airwaves should be monitored more closely. It just shouldn't be taken away from a person because W/we don't agree with it.

you: I'm not saying people don't deserve provoking every once in a while (I do quite a bit of it my damn self)...

No, ya don't say.

you: ...but I understand that you pay a price for doing it. And while I think too many people mistakenly equate nudity with pornography, there are certain kinds of erotic expression, and violent expression, that should be restricted in the public sphere, whether it's called art or not.

Me: You really DO have My post mixed up with someone else's cuz you're basically repeating Me, only changing words around.

you: If you think my criticizing your lack of sensitivity in regard to LGBT status is itself hate speech, then all I can say is, you definitely ARE sensitive and petty . . . to an extreme!

Me: First, that wasn't My point. Maybe I should have made it clearer. I wasn't trying to "equate using racist, mysogynistic or heterosexist language with identifying oneself as Lesbian or Gay." The point was that somewhere there's some super-conservative "Christian" that actually would. They might try to make the same argument saying My lesbian lifestyle was disgusting and I should not be speaking or writing about it freely. They may insist that My lifestyle and ability to speak freely and be out is treading on their belief system as a "Christian." It is ridiculous but they will do it because they try to argue that same poppycock now. The bottom line is that everybody will find something to complain about.

Me sensitive and petty? LOL. Clearly you're the one with the upset tone and ending posts with exclamation points. This is exactly what I'm talking about when I say that someone will always be offended by something. BTW, that last line in My previous post is called sarcasm, dear.

Stuffed Animal

Lenoxave: The difference between me and the Taliban is that they'll murder you for offending their sensibilities. I just want people held responsible for inappropriate expression in inappropriate places.

I don't know what you mean by "Gay Culture," but if you mean sexually explicit media in the public sphere, yeah, that should be restricted, regardless of what genders are involved.

You're making out as if I want to ban every little thing somebody might do that could offend somebody else, and that's absolutely untrue. I'm talking specifically about obscene, libelous, threatening speech and imagery that only adults should be exposed to. You can't blur my focus, so don't try.

VERB, even what you call "loose women" don't deserve to be slurred with misogynist language. There is nothiing "legitimate" about those words. They are ugly and demeaning. Anybody who would insist on using such language to describe another person is no lady and no gentleman. As for speaking freely in appropriate settings, I'm all for it. But that's not what I was talking about. The public airwaves is not an appropriate place for people to vent their bigotry and misogyny with language that's as raw as it can get.

Artists are members of society, just like everybody else. If an artist's mission involves provoking people to anger or outrage, he or she had better be willing to face the consequences. I'm not saying people don't deserve provoking every once in a while (I do quite a bit of it my damn self), but I understand that you pay a price for doing it. And while I think too many people mistakenly equate nudity with pornography, there are certain kinds of erotic expression, and violent expression, that should be restricted in the public sphere, whether it's called art or not.

If you think my criticizing your lack of sensitivity in regard to LGBT status is itself hate speech, then all I can say is, you definitely ARE sensitive and petty . . . to an extreme!

VERB

@ Stuffed Animal…

I am personally not equating “using racist, mysogynistic or heterosexist language with identifying oneself as Lesbian or Gay.” That’s ludicrous. My point is that some words are legitimate. To suggest that there are no loose women in this world, no women that walk around with a chip on their shoulders for no apparent reason other than to be an ass and there is no one on this planet that is contemptible and/or ignorant, then by all means ban away, sweetheart. The point is words are used to describe things and help U/us communicate with one another. How words are used is quite a different story. You mentioned in your post about using racial and sexual slurs at work, being on TV using the word “fuck,” etc. Critical thinking would dictate that those are inappropriate venues for such language. With that said, one would suffer harsh consequences for such offenses, as they should. So why deny everyone in the U.S. the right to speak freely in the appropriate settings? I’ll admit that I’m not Mary Poppins by any stretch of the imagination, but I know about being appropriate in speech. As much as I would like to think I’m the greatest thing since sliced bread in that regard, I’m sure I’m not alone. Plenty of people know when and where to certain things.

By your standards, it seems that all art (music/film/visual art/dance) would be under heavy scrutiny. Those who have yet to read Dick Gregory’s “Nigger” would not have the chance to do so. Those who enjoy the fetish art of Robert Mapplethorpe would not get to do so. Those who have yet to see the master combination of work from Brian de Palma, Oliver Stone and Al Pacino in “Scarface” should never do so. If W/we go too far in limiting speech, W/we’ll all be walking around like programmed androids.

Another thing, you said: “There's a difference between mere "crassness, ignorance and stupidity" and hate speech, but based on what you've posted here, I don't think you know what the difference is.” Based on you insulting My level of intelligence, a sensitive and petty Me might just consider your comment as offensive and under what I personally deem as hate speech. Be careful what you ask for, Stuffed Animal.

teka

"Wow Teka, you sound just like the Taliban. Can you understand that? They say the same exact thing you do, the "wicked immoral disgraceful Western world..." blah blah blah. " Len

That's your opinion and do you still believe in the weapons of mass destruction?

"What you fail to understand Teka is part of the deal with having nude paintings and sculptors of Greek Gods and Goddesses is having porn magazines." Len

Len first off I don't know what I said that set you off, because you've pretty much painted me as the anti-christ. I'm ok with that. Do you understand that the name of the person who posted something is underneath? I seriously think you have my posts confused with someone else's.

But even if you do...don't tell me what I don't understand, don't tell anyone what they don't understand. Isn't that censorship whiny baby? Isn't the below you whining about how you shouldn't repress.

"it's stupid to repress" Len

Yes I'm pretty sure the above is from you. See I actually check to make sure the person that I attack is the correct person. I think it has something to do with the fact that I'm not a dumbass...

I can be anti-corporate, but still for free speech. I am anti-corporate, but I'm ok if you want to be corporate, but I'm going to complain. I'm going to be critical of the parts that I don't like. That's my right as an American.

"Are you one of these people Teka? Corporate career climbing in white America and wearing braids? There are a lot of Black people that feel a woman should always why pantyhose/nylons/stockings with a skirt and never show her bare legs, are you one of these people Teka? Are you tired of women showing their bare legs too?"

Dude, what the hell are you talking about? I'm getting ready to perform in a pornographic film right now.

Where did I say or give the impression that women shouldn't show their bare legs? Yes I'm certain you confused my post with someone else's. This is going to be your unlucky day, because now I'm going to mock you for sport and I'm quite good at it.

I'm not corporate anything. I don't watch TV. I don't listen to commercial radio. I haven't even gone to the movies in years, so what are you talking about. I don't even know why I'm responding to you, oh because it's Saturday and I find arguing online entertaining.

"Okay, so you're tired of bitch, ho, nigger, nappy...what else?"

You are an odd delusional person. What I typed on this board is that we should focus on the corporations behind Don and behind the hip hop, I said this focus on one guy is silly...so where did are you getting this impression of me.

And in regards to repression, even in regards to everything I did say, I still believe that people should be able to say what they want, but people should feel free to say ,"Hey I don't like that."

"Americans are dumb." Len

And you're not dumb? I don't know any Europeans that go on about the Taliban and burkas. That sounds pretty American to me and I know you are not British, because your English is pretty, well you can't be British...

Air kiss,

Teka or to you Len, Miss Devil

ps

i'm still laughing about the thought of me in corporate america with braids....oh man, that's too funny...

Lenoxave

1. Don Imus did not break any laws and that's what we're discussing. We're not talking about screaming "fire" in a crowded theater, learn the distinction and focus your argument to the topic at hand, thank you.

2. "That doesn't make any difference to me. I'm tired of their misogynist, racist and heterosexist portrayals being freely imposed on elderly people, children, me, and everybody else who hasn't expressed a desire to see and hear their filth".

Wow Teka, you sound just like the Taliban. Can you understand that? They say the same exact thing you do, the "wicked immoral disgraceful Western world..." blah blah blah.

Lot's of right wing Bible thumpers refuse to see & accept how they are very much in sync with the Taliban...and you're no different Teka, not at all.

Come to NYC and look at a typical newsstand, half the magazines presented right there in full view on the public street are of fully naked or half naked women on the cover. Then look up ad the huge billboards in Times Square and see all the half-naked giant billboards. So you, and the Taliban are tired of this and want to end it....right?

A very large percentage of America would characterize and sum up Gay Culture as "Filth", should we "don-imus" Gay Culture out of existence too? Since we're on a roll and all.

What you fail to understand Teka is part of the deal with having nude paintings and sculptors of Greek Gods and Goddesses is having porn magazines. Half the Ads in women's magazines and men's magazines are porn any way (to a mild degree).

There are a lot of Black people that consider braids, cornrows, and dreads to be 100% "low grade" and inappropriate for an array of environments.

Are you one of these people Teka? Corporate career climbing in white America and wearing braids? There are a lot of Black people that feel a woman should always why pantyhose/nylons/stockings with a skirt and never show her bare legs, are you one of these people Teka? Are you tired of women showing their bare legs too?

Shall we make a list? Okay, so you're tired of bitch, ho, nigger, nappy...what else? I'm tired of cornrows, women with bare legs and not wearing stockings,....We Teka can take this to the point where you're in a Burka, how would you like that?

Where do you draw the line? Guess what, you don't. If some guy wants to tongue down his boyfriend in the public park, whatever. If another wants to say Nigga, bitch, nappy ho on record, in print, etc...whatever.

Americans are so dumb. When you grow up in Europe...and on the beach, you see so much nudity, "nudity" becomes "nothing", no big deal. However in repressive AMerica? Janet Jackson's titty becomes headline news.

You can repress a lot of things, it's stupid to repress vile, poor taste, speech from a rapper, an author, an entertainer, and Don Imus...

Stuffed Animal

Y'all just don't get it,do you? If you think all manner of speech is legally protected no matter where you use it, then I dare you to begin using racial and sexual slurs in your workplace. I dare you to walk into a synagogue and begin calling for the extermination of Jews. I dare you to go on network TV and use the "F" word. I dare you to go into an elementary school classroom as a teacher and start talking about sexual topics with slang terms and in graphic detail. I dare you to knock on your neighbor's door and threaten to kill him. Go ahead and try these things, if you're so damn sure you can't be prosecuted.

American law regulates speech! Libel is not protected. Threats (also known as "fighting words") are not protected. Obscenity is not protected. The Supreme Court has said so. All three of those things can constitute hate speech under certain conditions. The First Amendment does NOT give us the unconditional right to say anything in any kind of setting. If you can't dig that, then write your Congressman, start a petition, go stage a protest or something, but don't come up in here and try to pretend the opposite is true.

VERB, I can't believe that you would equate using racist, mysogynistic or heterosexist language with identifying oneself as Lesbian or Gay. That's libelous, disgusting and reprehensible, not to mention the most ignorant argument I've ever heard. There's a difference between mere "crassness, ignorance and stupidity" and hate speech, but based on what you've posted here, I don't think you know what the difference is.

Jim, that comment implying that Jasmyne's political positions justify discrimination against her minority group(s) pegs you as a stone wacko bigot slime. Why don't you slither back over to Redneckland and stay there where you belong? And don't call other people idiots until after you've taken a good look in the mirror. Take a serious look at the kind of insane garbage you post on people's blogs, too.

Anonymous poster, you may believe the virulence shock jocks and Gangsta rappers spew doesn't personally affect you and your family , but I hope you don't think you can speak for other people. We can speak for ourselves, and we know what kind of effect it has. Bigoted shock jock talk has encouraged the White mainstream to regard minority groups with increased hostility. Filthy-mouthed rappers have negatively influenced the way Black and Latino Americans are perceived by other groups of people all over the world. The prejudices this derogatory speech reinforces results in limited access to jobs, to housing, to human rights, to upward mobility and much more. There's nothing "PC" (whatever the Hell THAT means anymore) about exercising your right to denounce speech that offends you! We all have this right, and your Right Wing talk show host-inspired rage at alleged "political correctness" can't change that.

As for your comments, lenoxavenue, you're doing the same thing as VERB by trying to draw false connections between LGBT status and hateful rhetoric. You can't make that argument sound any less ignorant than he did. As for your "they're artists" argument, artists may lay claim to a wider range of expression, but they don't get a free pass. Americans can and will object to certain kinds of (allegedly) artistic expression, no matter whether it comes from Halle Berry or 50 Cent. I seem to recall that many African-Americans objected to Halle's hyper-sexualized portrayal of a working class Black woman in "Monster's Ball." Is that much different from objecting to Snoop Dogg or Don Imus referring to Black women as "hoes?"

I don't care if Gangsta rappers are just "portraying characters." That doesn't make any difference to me. I'm tired of their misogynist, racist and heterosexist portrayals being freely imposed on elderly people, children, me, and everybody else who hasn't expressed a desire to see and hear their filth. In the past, there were "blue" comedians like Rudy Ray Moore, Millie Jackson and Redd Foxx . . . sure. But their product wasn't blasted at our children via music videos, boomboxes, the Internet and TV.

The "entertainment product" that you claim has no impact on real life sure seems to have permeated the real-life culture I live in! I can't go out on the streets without seeing Black teenagers trying to emulate these "characters." The mode of dress, the language, the rudeness toward women and Gay people, not to mention the rising tally of drive-by shootings in my city all attest to how "art" can impact life.

Your final comment says something really profound to me: "There's room for crass, crude, and vile in my world. Keep it all in perspective folks." It and some of the other opinions posted here confirm my long-held suspicion that America has become a 100% amoral society. Insulting, degrading and offending each other on a grand scale is now considered normal. It's considered an "American value." Nobody wants to take responsiblity for what they do or say, and nobody cares about the welfare of the next person, especially not, it seems, if that next person is a child. There's a word for that kind of society. If you listen to Reggae music, or if you know Scripture, you've heard this word. The word is "Babylon"!!!

teka

I'm definitely not for banned anything, but I am for saying something. Say something when it's wrong and keep saying it over and over and over again. Censorship laws are like gun laws, pretty useless and the criminals still get to do what they want.

Teka

lenoxave

Note WEB DuBois asserted Jazz Music would ruin Negro people, said it was uncivilized, and felt Negroes should listen to "refined" classical - anglo music. In fact he started a record label to counter Jazz music. Ya know he held some very Anglo-centric views.

Note many of these rappers who you disdain own their record labels and control their distribution. They don't need radio rotation or the established business infrastructure to reach the masses. What are you going to do next, boycott Youtube & Myspace?

You give these rappers too much weight & power. They're CHARACTERS. Ice Cube is a character, in real life he's a married family man, do you understand that? He's got ONE wife, one woman and a family unit, etc. Ice Cube the character has referred to plenty of Bitch, 'Ho, & Nigga in his day.

Do you see the difference and perhaps your inability to discern entertainment product from real life?

Many here have a profound inability to separate characters and entertainment from real life. When Denzel Washington acts like a crazed cop, that's not really Denzel, that you undertand. Why do you hold Ice Cube or any rapper to a higher standard than you do Denzel or Halle Berry or a writer of fiction or a painter or a sculptor?

Oh yeah, I forgot, you all are so smart, etc. Most of you have a lot to learn and should start with the foolishness of the great W.E.B. DuBois. Yes, out of the halls of Harvard can come some foolish thought.

Sounds to me many of you are not willing to allow people to be crass, have bad taste, be crude, etc. Can Chris Rock degrade in his entertainment? Will you allow that? Can an author stereotype and degrade in their work?

Ya know there are some people, quite a few in fact, that have ZERO TOLERANCE for GAY culture. Does that shock you? Gay Governor of NJ? Oh no you must resign!

How does it feel to be a hypocrite? Let me get this straight (pardon the pun).

(1) You want what a great deal of society feels is crass, obscene, vile, deplorable, etc. (Gay Life) to be tolerated.

(2) You don't want what some feel to be bad taste, crass, vile, deplorable (Imus & Rapper - ENTERTAINER- speech) to be tolerated.

There's a whole lot of undeveloped thought here I see. Inconsistency, etc. Some people have a gay life style and culture (which is fine with me, I don't care), and some have a life style that demeaning and vile and insulting (Richard Pryor, Rudy Ray Moore, Chris Rock, Don Imus, Rapper whoever, ).

Ya know there are a lot of female rappers and comedians that are quite degrading and insulting as well.....who cares...there's room for crass, crude, and vile in my world. Keep it all in perspective folks...

ramsey

Unfortunately...we've lost a generation. Rather than embrace our rich history and heritage...they've embraced a prison mentality and mindset. Rap turned deadly when West Coast Rap was introduced. It highlighted ganster and prison lifestyles.

Amen, Kenny! Someone else gets it!

As the father of a young lady not unlike those Imus insulted, I was offended and displeased by what he said, but certainly not to the point where I thought he should be fired. I took the time to consider the source of the remarks: in this case, a braying jackass. What Imus says or does actually has very little impact on my life. I don't listen to or watch his shows, just like I don't listen to the majority of what passes for hip hop today or watch the videos. That's my prerogative.

What I really don't like, though, is that, because some segment of our society perceives a slight or an insult, a leap of logic is made that somehow our collective freedom of speech should be curtailed. What Imus said was vile, stupid and ifefensible, his attempt at humor notwithstanding.
But does it rise to the level of what some have termed "hate speech", whatever the hell that is?

Do we have the "right" not to be offended by another's insensitive, thoughtless, or even deliberate remarks? Check your Constitution, folks. And if such a "right" did exist, as many imagine it does or wish it would, who among us would be able to live our lives without offendind someone, in some way?

Imus was martyred to appease the PC gods, plain and simple. I almost feel sorry for him. Almost.

chandra

I LOVE Hip-hop and have since I was in middle school. I don't love commercial rap and I hope the masses know that there is a difference between commerical rap that you hear on the radio and underground groups like Blackalicious and Hieroglyphics. That being said, I stopped listening to commerical radio about a month ago. I would only listen to it to know what other people were talking about when referencing the latest rap song or group. The song I heard that made me say "Nevermind trying to keep up with the masses. As a self-respecting black woman, and an intellegent woman at that, I cannot listen to this crap." It is the song by Dem Heisman Boys. Here is a sample of the chorus.
"Shawty fine, breff stank (Do the heizman on dat ho)
tryna holla, no bank (Do the heizman on dat ho)
breff stank, no bank (Do the heizman on dat ho) (Do the heizman on dat ho) (Do the heizman on dat ho)"
Yeah, and we think Don Imus is the only thing we need to worry about.

Kenny

To start with a quote by Daveed "Speech can't be banned, nor should it be, but it CAN be restricted" and who get the right to restrict what is said? this is a bad road to start down, just becouse whoever is doing the restricting dosn't like something it gets cut!The 1st amendment gives us all the right to say what we want on here, anywhere like it or not. Imus statement was not said in hate just stupedity. If we senser stuped remarks well there wouldn't be a lot said!

As for Rev Al & Jesse, And I use the term Rev lossly here anyone can become a Rev. Jason Whitlock of the Kansas City Star said it best this morning on the Today show. He compares them to domestic terrists and opertunists. Rev Jesse & al are only in it for themselfs and the money it can make them.

teka

In regards to people being camped outside Snoop Doggy Dog's label.

They are.

Geffen is owned by Universl, Universal is part of MSNBC, why do you guys think it was Snoop Doggy Dog who got to make the statement in regards to rap being different than Imus. Do you think that was a coincidence...no it wasn't, just so you know. That was corporate damage control.

Don't think these corporate assholes don't watch blogs, they do. These assholes watch the blogs and since they have lots of money they can do damage control that looks quite natural.

Universal owns quite a few very big rap singers. Maybe own is the wrong term :)

Jay-Z, Snoop, Eminem, and addition they own Def Jam, Motown, Geffen Records...yes even Erykah Badu, I love Erykah, but she's making money for the same people who put out misogynist music. Now I'm going to be honest it's not so much the misogyny that bothers me, its the capitalism that bothers me, because I know that as long as their is capitalism there is going to be misogyny.

People are trying to make the vileness of Don, the misogyny of certain rap singers and the corporate ownership of different issues. They are not.

As long as we support corporations and let them make money off of us to provide us "entertainment" they will always find a new way to disrespect all of us, black us, white us, asian us, latino us, all of us.

Universal, MSNBC, NBC, CBS can all kiss my ass. They can throw me bones all day I know all of the vileness on TV has to do with them, not one guy. Not some ignorant rap singer who is so desperate he will do anything to make it. Not some old dried up man. No the reason that there is rap music that there is Don Imus that there are gossip sites which whole point are to make fun of and degrade people (and now we're all shocked that's its moved on to regular people) are because of the assholes in corporate media that own everything.

Teka

@ Natalia & VERB: I was wondering when someone was going to get around to the hypocrisy of Imus putting down anyone's appearance, seeing how he could easily pass for the Cryptkeeper's stunt double.

Jim

Jasmyne, you're a total IDIOT! As long as there's people like you, then there's a minority who will be discriminated against. If Jesse Jackson were calling white people racists or bigots, or Snoop Dogg, or some other person you disagree with, you'd jump to their aid just to defend them because you're black. YOU'RE A TOTAL RACIST! And don't think it doesn't go unnoticed by certain people, and you KNOW who I'm talking about.... it's NOTICED very well, and it's going to come back on you ten-fold, but I guess you won't publesh this one will you? hahahahahahahaha

VERB

@ Natalia... I know, right? And he has the nerve to criticize someone else's appearance.

Natalia

Why does it look as if death chewed him up and sh*t him out? I know this is superficial but this man looks ill.

VERB

Those of you that think you'll be able to limit someone's crassness, ignorance and stupidity by attempting to label it hate speech need to get the litigation going and let Me know how that pans out. Meanwhile I'll be working with groups that understand a pro-active approach versus a reactive approach. Oh and when you're done and someone that is offended by homosexuality starts coming for you, make sure your legal representation is in order. Some methods are obviously pointless. Imus being fired twice because of boycotts, picketing and a lot of noise that scared the living shit out of sponsors illustrates My point something lovely.

Ty

No one has said that he and the "rappers" should not be able to record and say what they feel, but, when you start calling women "ho's" sorry, that isn't freedom of speech, its a slur and hate speech. The can of worms that the whole concept of freedom of speech allows is that what's not offensive to some, maybe to many. I'm offended by all the lyrics of "rap" since I don't view women as "ho's" and nor do I feel the term "nigga" is a term of endearment like so many fools do, except of course when its said by a white person and I laugh at the rage of that, so, there has to be a way to regulate this sort of nasty trash without banning words or being PC, since that never helps, it only sends it underground and then it rears its ugly head like it did with Imus and can inflict more hurt.

And, since I don't listen to "rap" do the the white guys and others who do that sort of "music" hurl those words? I read that one obese white girl on that Vh1 show "White Rapper" said it and as freely as Snoop, so, is this a trend, ho's and niggas can only be uttered by those who say they are artist? Does that M&M guy, or is it just the black ones?

Stuffed Animal

Excuse me, but the last time I checked there was a difference between free speech and hate speech under the law. So many of us seem to forget that fact, I wonder, is it because we WANT to forget it? It is absolutely not enough to boycott corporations that market vile, sexist, heterosexist and racist Gangsta Rap recordings and videos. Understand? If the corrective action stops is limited to corporate boycotts, then ignorant rappers will find other, perhaps less high-profile outlets for their filth. That's not an improvement! Wherever they spew it, their bile impacts negatively on Black people. It increases disrespect for women. It endangers the lives of LGBT people. It's got to be nipped in the damn bud! Speech can't be banned, nor should it be, but it CAN be restricted, and that's what ought to happen in this case. We as a community need to restrict hate speech, and the government should, too.

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