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Monday, January 22, 2007

Comments

Louis

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. You have made one hell of a POINT. Love you sister. Keep up the good work!

Thomas

One last thing: your petition says that you don't approve of Isaiah using the the f-word at the Golden Globes.

Do you approve of him using it in the workplace, in the hearing of - not just TR Knight, but *many* people to whom it may apply? Or those who are not f)*&&^s, but who know and love them anyway?

I guess the gay, black key grip, cameraman, catering manager and set designer are honorary members of the white gay mafia?

Thomas

Cadence, I'd like to give Jasmyne a chance to clarify now that all the facts are known. If she doesn't, well, that says a lot.

For Trish: I can't believe Isaiah Washington is now in therapy while no one has said not one word in regards to the fact the "McDreamy" physically attacked Washington for calling someone who's gay, gay, using his term of preference.

Ok, Trish. Say I'm white. I work with a black female and a black male, and I decide that my term of preference for black females is "Dirty South Hoe Momma". I say it in front of my black male co-worker, referring to you, and you either overhear it, or not. My black male coworker chokes me for being a bigoted idiot. Does he deserve therapy?

Nope. How about a medal, though?

Are the people who support my black coworker 'instigators'? Nope. They're people of conscience.

Should I run around suggesting that if you didn't hear it all should be well?

Cadence

Trish, were you there? The early reports said Washington is the one who choked Dempsey, and that TR, as TR confirmed, was there when Washington used the slur. We don't have any evidence that Dempsey physically attacked Isaiah, but we do know as Shonda Rhimes said to eonline, that no report lied about what happened.

Trish

I can't believe Isaiah Washington is now in therapy while no one has said not one word in regards to the fact the "McDreamy" physically attacked Washington for calling someone who's gay, gay, using his term of preference. If Washington is in therapy then so Dempsy needs to be for his physical temper tantrum. Or I'm sorry, is a physical assault on a black man permitted if it's in defense of someone who wasn't even there to hear it, because that person was so disrespectful of the time of a man who has 3 children I'm sure he'd like to get home to, and running late. And you know what, yes, I truly believe in this circumstance it should be so easy as apologizing directly to the person you hurt. TR can then choose to forgive and move on or he can continue listening to all the instigators and the better than Washington people who would "never say anything like that".

Thanks,
Trish

Cadence

Thomas, I doubt Jasmyne will apologize or admit that when she wrote her two original posts, she really wasn't aware of the facts of the situation. I'm going to say that she wasn't aware, because I don't want to accuse her of flat out lying and embellishing the story to make her point. She tried to make this a Washington (Black man) versus TR Knight (White man) situation when it is all about Isaiah Washington and his actions, and nothing else.

thomas

Jasmyne: Isaiah apologized, not just for saying the word "faggot" at the awards show... but for repeating it, i.e., he called TR Knight the ephithet as originally reported. He also lied about to try to save his own butt.

Then, he apologized - sincerely and very thoroughly, it seems. Why? I mean, he wouldn't apologize for something he didn't do, right? Because that would be a lie. Could it be that he woke up and - with integrity - said, "I did something wrong, and I truly am sorry?"

That might be a lesson for you. Trotting out an example of racism perpetrated by vile white gay people against black people is not a valid way to address the issue, because COUNTLESS examples of vile black homophobia against gay people of all colors can be brought forth with a mouse click. And then are we closer to knowing what Isaiah did or how he should making amends? Nope. All you did was muddy the waters, and now that you've been proven wrong, perhaps it's time to make amends.

Shirley Liquor should be stopped, and I applaud your efforts to rally the community to do so. That's got nothing to do with Isaiah Washington disrespecting a gay co-worker for no good reason, lying about it, doing it again, and finally coming clean.


johnny cockring

"If IW had looked T.R. in the eyes and yelled that word or used it several times with the same glee as COSMO did the n-word he would definitely deserve everything he is getting now, but the fact is HE DIDN'T."

Cosmo did it in a comedy club. Washington did it in the workplace. Those are very different things. One is illegal, my friend.

Rupaul

"Critics who think that [Shirley Q. Liquor is] offensive are idiots," RuPaul told the Windy City Times. "They need to trust their gut because if they went with their gut they would know that she is so not a racist. . . . Listen, I've been discriminated against by everybody in the world: gay people, black people, whatever. I know discrimination, I know racism, I know it very intimately. She's not racist! And if she were, she wouldn't be on the record."

reason

you're right about that last point. the harrassment and physical threats to LGBT people--of all races--is far more important that one actor sassing another. but media attention is, has been and probably always will be directed at the famous. isaiah washington is famous, and he benefits greatly from that. the downside to fame is that when you screw up it's also news. it happened to cosmo. it happened to trent lott. it happened to jimmy the greek. it's happening to isaiah. and it isn't because he's black and most gay leaders are white.

If IW had looked T.R. in the eyes and yelled that word or used it several times with the same glee as COSMO did the n-word he would definitely deserve everything he is getting now, but the fact is HE DIDN'T.

He said something in anger for who knows what reason. I seriously doubt that a man who would portray a gay man so wonderfully with no concern about his image is a raging homophobe.

Those who don't see the way this is being handled as a matter of race need to open their eyes and leave the GLAAD office. When has there been the same reaction to a black sgl being victimized? If only people felt as strongly about the murder of black sgl people and the dehumanization of black women as they do IW acting ignorant for three seconds.

I am a black man who used to applaud and think she was working for progress. However, this story has exposed her as racially divisive and irrational. While there are some gays who are racist, most are not. IN the 21st century, gay and straight blacks have many intimate relationships with Whites, are not prone to sign off on Jasmyne's inflammatory racially charged tactics. She should work to unite people, instead of needlessly injecting race into everything. Yes, Shirley Q Liquor should cease and desist, but that is a distinct and separate issue than the Isaiah Washington issue. Jasmyne is muddying the waters, to the detriment of her own credibility and the SQL issue.

I think it's the height of hypocrisy that you'd suggest that Washington should keep his job while also advocating for SQL to stop performing. You can't have it both ways. If you want to gve a pass to Washington for his disgusting behavior, then you have to do the same for SQL's equally disgusting behavior. There should be no double-standard.

Let's face facts. You advocate for Washington solely and only because he's black. The fact that he's a lying homophobe seems utterly irrelevant to you since his skin color is the same as yours.

The truth: the fact that Washington is black has ZERO to do with why he needs to be canned. Hateful bigots come in all colors.

J

No one is suggesting IW should slide. People would just like to see him dealt an appropriate punishment. He doesn't deserve to be fired. It will be interesting to see how long it takes for this to blow over.

reason

to jasmyne and mimi and others:

it is convenient of you to conflate washington's remark with shirley q. liquor's act. but it doesn't wash. isaiah washington is a highly-paid, pampered actor on one of TV's biggest hit shows. he is a public figure.

chuck knipp is almost unknown. i imagine the vast majority of white gay people have never heard of him or shirley q. liquor.

he hasn't been denounced because most people don't know who he is, and most people...brace yourselves...don't read this blog.

but washington embarrassed you. he said what he said and he apologized (which i think most people genuinely appreciate. those still calling for him to be fired are shrill losers.) but that's enough for you. you want to still strike back somehow at gay white people. more division. more name-calling. more hate.

when does it end? stop it.

nydyke

what nubian said

denise


Elle-
poignant... and deep... but beyond this, what is it that We must do? If SQL got banned tomorrow - White folk would make sure he was on TV the next day with a show; and in a few months he'd get a GLAAD award; plus, I'm not for banning and censoring and all that... I think that We can shine a light on it; and let those who want to support him, do so... and I am sure a lot of Black folk eat him up! Do they serve watermelon at the shows?

Cadence made some good points... I did not think of that...but I am still of the opinion that if this had been reversed they would not have said anything...

John-

your amnesia has me confused now... We are not arguing, believe me.


Cadence

Grey's Anatomy has been nominated for 8 GLAAD awards.

MacTad

I only vaguely remembered hearing about Shirley Q. Liquor, so I did some research. While it is true that the white, gay establishment hasn't been AS VOCAL as one would have hoped about Knipp and SQL, that is no reason to let Washington slide. If anyone is interested, I've written about the two cases on my blog. And yes, this is a shameless plug. However, I did use Jasmyne's article as a starting point.

http://thewickedwoman.com/2007/01/22/black-straight-man-vs-white-gay-man/

Cadence

Jeremy, GLAAD never called for Isaiah to be fired. The did ask to speak to him, so they could try and get him to understand why he shouldn't use the word. GLAAD has eve said that they want to encourage discousrse about the subject, but they never said they want him fired. GLAAD has many issues, a blind spot to work being done by LGBT people in the media is one of them, but we don't have to make up stuff in order to support our point of view.

Cadence


Jasmyne, I don't believe it's part of GLAAD's mission to speak out against the SQL situation. I don't think this falls under their agenda. But, I'm curious, have you tried to contact any established gay organizations to help in the fight to educate people about SQL and to help get him banned from performing? I wouldn't come down on an organization about this specific situation if no effort has been made to get that organization to take action regarding Charles Knipp.

Also, you aren't being honest when you say your support of IW isn't about race. Every post you've written about this has to do with race. You compared this situation to White women claiming that Black men raped them. You said that the White mafia is after a Black man. None of your arguements deal with the fact of this case. I don't think either your petition or the one to get IW removed mean too much. The fact is action needs to be taken if IW is a disruption on the set, if he can't act towards a respectful and professional mannaer towards his co-workers, and if ABC believes that it will negatively effect their bottom line to have him in the cast.

johnosahon

elle | Monday, January 22, 2007 at 03:21 PM

please, what chops? he is on the most popular show on tv, the least he ca do is shut the f... up.

johnosahon

denise | Monday, January 22, 2007 at 02:51 PM

what the hell are you talking about, aren't you proving my point. Glaad has no issue with black rights, just as AL Sharpton has no issue with IW's incident. Everybody is fighting for their own right, so why are you arguing with me?

elle

I have some thoughts about this whole Isiah Washington/Grey's Anatomy thing. Some deep thoughts. I will share some of them now, at the risk of being pelted with rotten tomatoes by some of you.

1) From the one night (only) that I spent with him at a club in DC last year, Isaiah did not strike me as a homophobe.

2) Even if he is a homophobe, I don't think homophobia is what motivated his alleged 'outburst' on the Grey's Anatomy set.

Here's what I think:

I think Isiah, like a lot of talented black actors-- nay black professionals-- out there, has reached his breaking point.

Like all his peers, he is probably tired of having to deal with white folks and the BS of a white Hollywood where many black actors bust their chops and get nowhere, while their white counterparts get an easier ride; he's probably tired of working his butt off at his craft for years and years and not getting recognition for it, while (white, long-out-of-work) actors like Patrick Dempsey make easy come-backs from 80s flicks like "Can't Buy Me Love" without (it appears) having to bust a sweat; and no doubt he's probably tired of busting his black ass trying to perfect his craft, while having all his hard work marginalized by constant references to the (white) "McDreamies" of his show, none of which make room for an equally fine black brother.

So.


With this perspective in mind, my thoughts are that Isiah's 'outburst' that day on the GA set probably did not come from a homophobic place at all, but more from a "fed up" place.
What he was probably thinking at the time was just:


"Dag, why can't these m*&%$&^%s just freakin' stop wasting time already and get they a$$es on the set on time?! I mean, if I can get my black a$$ here, why the (expletive) can't you? Sheeeeet."

Only, it came out all wrong.

Instead of apologizing all over the place, Isiah should just have told it like it was:

"Folks, it gets TIRING being a black man working in y'all's world all the DAGGONE time! Can't you dig it?!"

The end.

In the words of Chris Rock during his (in)famous O.J. routine, I'm NOT saying it's okay to (allegedly) call someone a derogatory name. All I'm saying is-

I understand.

denise

John-

What race is faggot?

What does Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson have to do with it?

Al and Jesse do their thing... you may not like it, but it is theirs to do? They are not against Gay folk, but neither support what they call the lifestyle; that is their right, isn't it? I haven't seen the phantom Gay Leadership protesting for Sean Bell or the myriad of Blacks abused on a daily basis in this system, either.

Their jobs are to shine a light on an incident/ problem, or open a door - the rest is up to Us. They are not Saviors, but they make most of Us look totally like what We are.

It is not picking sides to say that it is wrong for the Gay Majority to target Mr. Washington and not one of their own White Gays...

Being Black is not a side; it is who We are, and We cannot separate that from Our being Gay... unless you are one of those people who chose to be Black and Gay. For many of Us, this was not a choice; and neither can be separated from the other. If you don't get that, I think that the Gay Majority just reminded you - yet again.

This relationship between Blacks and Whites permeates every segment of society... You see it in the White Feminist Movement... Planned Parenthood, Politics etc... no group or movement has the betterment of Black people at heart, no matter their socio-politioco-sexual hue. This is something that many of Us do to Ourselves... We want to be accepted (and would say and do anything for such) instead of being empowered.

No one has to agree with Jasmyne; these are her opinions... personally, I like the fact that she, at least, doesn't support everything and everyone just because they are Gay or Black; and she does not seemingly subvert herself, as many of Us do, just because they are White either...
So disagree - it is okay; Many people hate people who are FREE - even if for only a moment.

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