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Friday, January 26, 2007

Comments

cbdallas

I see so many people griping about stereotypes here, but none can deny that these things are consistently represented in specific areas of the black community on a very regular basis. All one has to do is look around to find what SQL is presenting carries a level of truth. My question is..SO WHAT? SQL obviously hits a nerve with some people by inferring that black people like fried chicken, speak Ebonics, and so on and so on, but I wholeheartedly believe that the nerve is hit because there is truth beneath it. What makes fried chicken and Ebonics so bad?? It exists...and there's no way to deny it. I see and hear it every time I step on the MARTA train in Atlanta. I could barely understand the two black women standing beside me because their english was so poor. SO WHAT? It exists. SQL isn't making it up. She learned it from somewhere. She doesn't represent every facet of the black community, and never claimed to do so.

I could see the problem if SQL or anyone else tried to assert that black people liked murder and animal cruelty...if that were being presented, I too would protest. But I see a lot of people getting worked up over things that are harmless characteristics of a race of people. Where are the white protests over white stereotypes? It happens as well, but the griping doesn't seem to. The folks that are protesting SQL need to focus their efforts on REAL racism, where jobs and ways of life are in jeopardy. SQL isn't about that.

this website is proof enough that knipp shouldnt stop his act.. shut up and go on with your lives. its not that serious I promise. What about Dave Chapelle painting his face white and talking "white"? Do I get offended.. no.. I laugh and then go on about my life. Everybody makes fun of everybody. Get over it.

Alec

I have taken some time to review his "humor" and I agree that it is offensive. And while Knipp's speech is certainly protected by the First Amendment, Cadence is completely correct: it applies only to government (although an earlier poster was correct that threatening and violent behavior is wrong; Jasmyne's posts fall way short of that, and the comparison to abortion clinic bombings is both absurd and offensive).

That being said, I am offended by this insinuation that white gay men are somehow collectively to blame for this man's behavior. I saw it in the Washington article, I have seen it in the latest posts. The fact that Knipp performs in gay venues and has a gay fan base (and yes, probably a white one at that) is irrelevant; I can only imagine the racist, sexist and homophobic filth that is performed (to resounding praise) in other venues.

And I think that all of this is a distraction, including Washington. The Supreme Court is poised to use Brown in the most ironic way: reverse its remedy for racial integration in public schools. The racial imbalance in the criminal justice system is grotesque. Maybe my perspective as a law student is skewed, but there are other issues I wish the civil rights crowd would urge CNN and other media outlets to focus on. Knipp and racist parties are troubling; the disparity in sentencing between crack and cocaine is outright devestating. But alas, a different subject altogether.

Cadence

Oh yeah, sweetie, the First Ammendment is about the government stopping free speech, it doesn't have anything to do with citizens protesting the hate speech of of their fellow citizens. We can, and do have the right to protest blackface and other forms of bigotry; just like people have the right to protest in front of abortion clinics. It's really no surprise that a follower of Knipp wouldn't be intelligent enough to distinguish between doing physical harm and protesting.

It's really funny that we have protested Knipp through legal and adult channels, contacting media outlets, government and civic organizations, but Knipp's people are the ones who have resorted to bullying, publishing private information, and issuing threats against people. This is more in line with bombing clinics, and illegal activity. Again, it's not like it's such a big surprise, personally I wouldn't expect anything less from them.

Cadence

And what are the tactics that are being used by Knipp and his minions? It's always interesting to see bullies get upset when their methods are used against them.

Who said you don't have the right to protest? What's illegal is denying a person his right to free speech. Jasmyne has arrogantly stated from the beginning that she intends to "stop" him. Don't think anyone is fooled by that "oh, we're just protesting" crap. It's harassment, intimidation and violation of civil liberties - KKK tactics used by the self-appointed saviors and martyrs of the black race.

Jennifer

I see that most of Knipp's fans are illiterate, so let's try this one more time.

The same amendment that protects Knipp's right to be a bigot is the same amendment that protects our right to protest said bigotry. The first amendment applies to EVERYONE, not just to white people.

Any questions?

"I'm under absolutely no obligation to let Mr. Knipp continue to mock my people in order to make his living"

Well, there is one small obligation called the First Amendment.

It is against the law to deny a person his or her right to free speech. Like it or not, blackface is legal and protected under the First Amendment.

It is also against the law to deny a person his lawful livelihood under the Fourteenth Amendment.

I have no doubt that, during the early days of the Civil Rights Movement, most Southern whites felt that blacks should not be allowed to demonstrate and disrupt daily life, and I'm sure they used the same sort of smug intimidation and harassment you hint at in your statement "my pleasure to encourage him to find a new job, any way I can."

A very large segment of society believes that abortion is murder. This does not give them the right to bomb an abortion clinic or to intimidate and harass doctors who perform abortions or, as you say, "encourage" them to find new jobs.

Why isn't anyone condemning some of the hateful postings on this web site? I have seen more expressions of hate speech, slurs profanity, and personal attacks on this website than I have seen in all of Mr. Knipp's work put together.

Jennifer

The fact is that Knipp can paint his face black until his skin falls off, but he can never be what Jasmyne is - a REAL black woman. And knowing that keeps Knipp awake at night warms the cold cockles of my heart.

Stuffed Animal

While I don't agree with linking Charles Knipp's activities to the Isaiah Washington controversy (I've been called "faggot" by hateful Black men too many times to have any sympathy for Mr. Washington), I am 100% in Jasmyne's corner regarding the offensive nature of the Shirley Q. Liquor persona. I've had it with this current American culture that's so hell-bent on not being "politically correct," it eagerly embraces racial and sexual slurs and stereotypes. Some of us out here are old enough to remember how harmful those things are.

And I'm under absolutely no obligation to let Mr. Knipp continue to mock my people in order to make his living. It's my pleasure to encourage him to find a new job, any way I can. Why would I be okay with a White man degrading African-Americans when I'm not okay with Black gangsta rappers doing it?

Cadence, that's what I don't get, anyone who goes to see what he peddles and then says that its all just good old boy, gay fun is really out of it. How anyone can visit that site and not say that isn't racist I just don't get it, but, they have to live with themselves and their sad, sick sense of humor. I find his act offensive, and yet, if, he were not doing it in black face, I would say more power to him and his fans, since like the one poster said, they agree with it and his schick isn't ending any negative racial perceptions of blacks, with them his fans or anyone else. Maybe, they need to get to know a REAL black woman and listen to issues that affect her, not some man with black paint smeared across his face telling them how she feels, since I doubt he has talked to nay black women other than the poor maids who had to suffer "working" for his family, which must have been awful considering how he disrespects thier memory.

And, a REAL black woman is far funnier than anything Knipp could ever come up with since he just isn't that funny or witty, just a shrewed bigot who has found a niche market that goes for that sort of trash.

"we have a right to tell them how we feel"

Is that a euphemism for "we have a right to silence him and take his livelihood away"? Let's not sugar-coat what's going on here.

Cadence

That should say "with" Jasmyne.

Cadence

Alec, while I don't agree wit Jasmyne on the isaiah Washington situation, I don't think we need to get into an arguement about who is worse between Knipp and I. Washington. That's like arguing if homophobia is worse than racism. Both or wrong, and neith should be allowed. This is not an either or situtuation.

Research Knipp. He knows what he is doing. HIs act isn't about comedy, just like the the original blackface act (Jim Crow) wasn't about comedy. His intention isn't satire or to shed light on racism. His intention is to demean a whole race of people. Just like it is wrong to stay quiet when someone is spewing homophobic slurs, it is wrong to stay quiet in the Knipp situation. Just as Knipp has the right to spew his garbarge and I. Washington has the right to spew his homophobia, we have a right to tell them how we feel about what they have to say.

Cadence

I can't believe any intelligent person would believe that if the mainstream press got wind of this story, most of them wouldn't paint Knipp as a racist. Hello, he performs in BLACKFACE. That fact alone is incredibly disgusting, and shows what type of person Knipp is. Then when can move to his site, where he sells merchandise engraved with racist and demeaning phrases. Only someone as uneducated and ignorant as Knipp would say that the garabage that he spews isn't racist or offensive.

People who actually think this might be satire are giving Knipp far too much credit and the man has made it quite obvious in interviews that it's not.

There seem to be a lot of klansmen and women hiding behind the notion that they are trying to show the world how silly racism is when they present this sort of material. I hope people aren't falling for it.

Alec

This marks the first time I have seen any of his performances...and I still cannot decide if he is mocking black people or mocking white perceptions of blacks.

The fact that certain behaviors are associated with a particular group can be used to comedic effect. That does not make the comedians racist. Margaret Cho mocks stereotypes of Asians all the time. Dave Chappelle is no stranger to this comedic device either. Most of what I saw of Knipp's performance was not funny from my personal point of view, but I do not know that I can call it racist. The same cannot be said for the picture of the drunken guy.

To illustrate the difference, think of SNL's skit portraying Nancy Pelosi's personal assistant as a sadomasochistic homosexual male, complete with a skimpy leather outfit, and ditto for South Park's Mr. Slave who has a "Whore Out" contest with Paris Hilton. Not exactly positive images of gay males, but I would not call them offensive, either. I found both of them very amusing. The same cannot be said for a joke like "AIDS: Turns fruits into vegetables." Bad taste, homophobic.

The nuance of humor prevents me from making sweeping generalizations about whether a particular comedic act is racist, sexist, homophobic, etc. But Ms. Cannick is trying to make Knipp's comedic act equivalent to Washington's (decidedly non-comedic) use of a homophobic slur. That it is not.

Mimi

The nonsense spewed from behind a computer is amazing. Why would any decent go see this "man" in black face. he and the fans of his "humor" can laugh until the sun won't rise in the east anymore. he has no business in black face. And, the same ones who say its "harmless" are the same ones who cross the street from young black men, queer or straight. And, the same ones who most of the times can't tell the difference from the exaggerated black face Shirley, from poor black women who are trying to make it. Its a sad shame, but, not one unexpected to see the nonstop posting that Jasmyne is wrong, well, last time I checked, she has a choice to be offended by race baiting like Chuckie and his fans, good for her for calling him and them out for what they are. Now I guess more long, boring rants about how its just wholesome all American humor.

One would think they would have something better to do with their time, like raise funds for Glaad or the HRC. Or, save thier coins to follow the black face show on the road tour, that is before decent people get it axed, LOL! But, nope, they keep on posting the same nonsense that other uniformed bigots have been doing for the past couple of weeks, under the guise, I'm really liberal and fair, and just don't see why a "man" with black paint smeared on his face mocking black women with kids with names of STD's would be offended.

Jennifer

Whoa, whoa, WHOA. JASMYNE didn't allow the show to happen? I wasn't aware that Jasmyne owned The Factory! I didn't know that she had the ability to pull the plug on Knipp's show! Well hell! What are we protesting for! We don't need to - just let ol' lady Jas use her magical powers, and Knipp will crawl back into the hole he came out of! YA-HOOOOO!!!!

I dont get it...

whats the fuss?

Queer Kid of Color

I still cant see the racism.

I dont understand why black people cry racism all the time.

Jasmyne, you're my biggest female role model. But I can't see what you see on this one. No matter how many postings you put up on it.

Well, I suppose Jasmnye et al. might be trying to bring Chuck national because it's a knee-jerk cause that allows her to whip people into a frenzy without their having to think. Same tactic the neocons have used when they play the gay marriage card.

Unfortunately for her, she's picked the wrong person to make an example of, because if this does get to the national press, if it gets to real journalists who actually know how to ferret out the truth about things, it's going to come out that:

- she never previewed the show's actual content (which is pretty obvious since she never allowed it to happen),

- she made all sorts of assumptions about Knipp's integrity and intentions that are easily proven false, the biggest one of which is the assumption that he's a racist

- that she's never tried to open any real dialogue with him

- that's she's running roughshod over free speech and personal liberty issues, etc. etc.

I imagine the black press will be sympathetic, but that's pretty much preaching to the choir.

In my opinion, he's extremely talented and will go national as an artist regardless, if that's his aim. I don't think the Shirley character is that important to him, and so it will fall by the wayside. But if his fans want to see Shirley, I don't think he's going to allow anyone to bully or intimidate him into not performing as Shirley.

Da

What I'm saying is: if you hate Shirley's local act that much, why would you want to bring it national?

The parallel might be wrong - but for the sake of argument, I'd say it would be like hearing of some KKK member spewing hate on a blog, and launching a full fledge national campaign to stop them. Well guess what? you've not only given them a larger audience, but you tied up ressources and time that can could have been allocated to more important matters.

Fact is: there's always going to be a mysoginist, homophobic, racist or ignorant person somewhere (and imo Shirley doesn't fit these categories), and focusing your energies to change each one of them is counterproductive.

Give voice to those who have GREAT things to say!! instead of focusing on what x or y may have said badly about you..That's how you inspire & empower people.

Jennifer

Oh, this same old tired argument. "If you protest, you'll bring more attention to her!" Uh-huh. And?

Da

This Shirley Liquor outrage is strange, cause I watched her on youtube long before this and thought she was brilliant! Like that one skit she did called "Homosexicals" in which she goes through the names gay people have been called over the years (sapphos, lesbians, gay people etc..) and she draws a parallel with the names black people have had over the years.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzx7d45XBEE

She made that character sound very compassionate, human, and kind. And in her delivery I sensed a lot of reverence and humility - not hate. Surely there may be other clips that ARE offensive, but that's humor for you. Some of it is always bound to be that way, and you just have to shut it off if you don't enjoy it.

For instance, much of the comic characters played by Eddy Murphy in the Nutty Professor movie are offensive and gross, but should be stopped from making them? No.

The same goes for Shirley Liquor, she's a humorist..and a small niche one at that. Yet the more attention you bring to her, the more you're making her famous - and the greater the chances that the "commercial recuperation" of her act is going to be something you'll dislike even more. Cause she cannot control the way some of her racist fans are going to interpret her act.

BTW, the clips found on youtube are not by Shirley. She had an imposter stealing her videos and reuploading them. Her own account HoneyCharles has no videos (and you'll note from the channels she watches that she herself is into comedy that mocks trannies, which isn't so PC).

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